Gregorian Calendar

by NeverKnew 39 Replies latest jw experiences

  • NeverKnew
    NeverKnew

    I'm suffering from a vicious cycle. Put the research down - declare I'm not doing it anymore because it sickens me, ponder, make another aha connection, get sickened by it, put the research down, declare I'm not doing it anymore because it sickens me.. ponder. I'm glad it's not just me.

    I think my JW friend has been embarrassed one time too many with WT historical facts and so now he has asked me to help him understand my concerns and present him with some research that validates it. Don't worry, I know he'll have to do some on his own so he won't get everything. We are BACK to the formula of 1914. I told him I would break that formula down to small bites. He's aware of the original 1874 Armageddon prediction which then became an invisible presence claim and that 1914 was originally an Armageddon prediction that... well you know the rest.

    Here's my first question for him to ponder. There are intentional flaws in the wording of this e-mail to see if he actually researches the topic to correct me. I'm sure some of you will catch them. For those of you who don't, don't lose sleep, they're incredibly subtle to the point of arguably valid.

    On the formula 607 BC + 2520 years = 1914...

    How did Russell scripturally determine that a calendar system that didn't exist at the time of the biblical writings was the appropriate one to use to predict Christ's return? The use of other calendar systems would put the date +/- 50 years or more. The one chosen by Russell/Rutherford wasn't adopted until the 16th century (400 years ago).

    Broad overview of Calendar Systems (does not include the ancient Asian calendaring systems)

    The history of calendars spans several thousand years. In many early civilizations, calendar systems were developed. For example, in Sumer, the birthplace of the modern sexagesimal system, there were 12 months of 29 or 30 days apiece, much like the modern Gregorian calendar. Mesoamerican cultures also developed their own intricate calendars; the ancient Maya had two separate years—the 260-day Sacred Round, and the 365-day Vague Year. Classical Greek and Roman cultures also developed calendars; the ancient Athenians, for one, had a lunisolar calendar that lasted 364 days, with an intercalary month added every other year. The Romans used two different year lengths; the older one had 304 days divided into 10 months; the newer 365 days divided into 12 months; very much like the modern calendar. They counted years from the founding of Rome, or, sometimes, from the reign of the current consul.

    During the early Middle Ages, various local calendars were used in Europe. The presently common Anno Domini system was developed in the 8th century, but the system only became common several centuries later, and even then, rival systems remained in use. Distinct from the rest of Europe, the Scandinavian Vikings maintained their own calendar during this time, which was divided into two seasons; summer and winter. A definition of the calendar day resembling the modern one was first stated in the latter part of the 13th century. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_calendars)

    But what do the scriptures tell us?

    Matthew 24:36-39

    New International Version (NIV)

    36 “But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. 37 As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 38 For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; 39 and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man.

    Matthew 24:42

    New International Version (NIV)

    42 “Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come.

    Mark 13:35-37

    American Standard Version (ASV)

    35 Watch therefore: for ye know not when the lord of the house cometh, whether at even, or at midnight, or at cockcrowing, or in the morning;

    Luke 12:40

    English Standard Version (ESV)

    40 You also must be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect.”

    2 Peter 3:10

    American Standard Version (ASV)

    10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall be dissolved with fervent heat, and the earth and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

    Revelation 16:15

    New International Version (NIV)

    15 “Look, I come like a thief! Blessed is the one who stays awake and remains clothed, so as not to go naked and be shamefully exposed.”

    2 Peter 1:16

    American Standard Version (ASV)

    16 For we did not follow cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of his majesty.

    Wish me luck!

  • Tater-T
  • Amelia Ashton
    Amelia Ashton

    When I discovered this: The astronauts and cosmonauts on the International Space Station witness around 15 sunrises and 15 sunsets every day.

    The International Space Station orbits about 354 kilometers (220 miles) above the Earth and travels at approximately 27,700 km/hr (17,211 mph), so it takes about 92 minutes to circle the Earth once. For this reason, every 45 minutes the astronauts on-board see a sunrise or a sunset, with a total of 15 – 16 of each every 24 hours.

    So then I pondered how many does Jehovah see? What calendar would He use?

  • NeverKnew
    NeverKnew

    Crap... can't open the Carl Sagan link. I know nothing about him. Googling him now.

    Amelia: LOVE that, I'll use it. Since Jehovah lives in the heavens and witnesses the same sunrises, does he have a cosmonaut calendar he uses? AND given HIS ability to travel faster and differently and given the concept of time in heaven with respect to our perception, ... wow, how did they scripturally knock HIS calendar off the list?

  • Tater-T
    Tater-T

    http://corior.blogspot.com/2006/02/carl-sagans-remarks-about-jehovahs.html

    oops this one should work

    edit to note: and they are still saying.. 1914... we got that right!!.... It's amazing..

  • Amelia Ashton
    Amelia Ashton

    It ended "invisibly"!

  • NeverKnew
    NeverKnew

    Tater - he's exactly right.

    Amelia - you're a clown! :)

  • Tater-T
    Tater-T

    They can't get rid of 1914 because it's central to them... 1919 God chooses them to be FDS...so.. no 1914 no 1919..

    back to "who really is FDS" .. that's a lot of splainin' to do .. they don't have the ability to rework everything! lol .. they're stuck with it

    and in 2014 WTBTS proclaiming Christ invisible rule for 100 years ..

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmwqnqL3Hbg

  • Amelia Ashton
    Amelia Ashton

    And lets not compare Satan's achievements over the last 100 years to Christ's non achievemnet of anything other than to direct the preaching work..

  • AnnOMaly
    AnnOMaly

    Whatever calendar was used, it had to synchronize with a 365.25 solar year. Lunar or schematic calendars which were some days short of 365.25 days had to have extra days added periodically so that the seasons wouldn't drift out of sync with the solar year. The inconsistency with Russell/Barbour is their assuming 360 days in a so-called 'prophetic' year and then translating those 360 days x 7 into 360 years x 7.

    More info in the last post (quoting Leolaia) on THIS THREAD.

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