is the current WT teaching that all prior to jesus death will not go to heaven?

by sowhatnow 4 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • sowhatnow

    if so would that not make Matthew ch 17 vs 3 [transfiguration] a bit confusing to explain? I mean, where did they come from? the grave?

  • Daniel1555

    They say the transfiguration is just a vision.

    Harder for them to explain would be Hebrews 11:16.

  • sowhatnow
    hebrews 11...

    maybe not, my mother would say 'just because they were 'looking' for a heavenly kingdom doesn't mean that's what they were going to be given" lol

    but vs 13 is interesting, it says they are foreigners ON EARTH.

    13 All these people were still living by faith when they died. They did not receive the things promised; they only saw them and welcomed them from a distance, admitting that they were foreigners and strangers on earth.

    wow, we can run with that one.

  • eyeuse2badub

    Don't worry, you are not the only one confused. When the gb meet together on Wednesdays, you can bet that those 7 men are not sure what the current wt teachings are. Not humanly possible to keep up with the ever changing wt bulls**t. But---

    Isn't better to have questions that can't be answered--than--answers that can't be questioned!

    just saying!


  • R. Jerome Harris
    R. Jerome Harris

    Jesus was quite clear at John 3:13,

    "Moreover, no man has ascended into heaven but he that descended from heaven, the Son of man."

    One should not care about what the WatchTower or any religious organization says on this matter. It is what God and Christ says. God has commanded at Luke 9:35:

    "This is my Son, the one that has been chosen. Listen to him"
    Then listen to what Christ says at Luke 9:35.
    The transfiguration vision is a powerful teaching point that shows that no one other than Christ is to be listened to. Notice that two great Prophets appeared in vision along with Christ: Elijah and Moses. These were two great Prophets that God used in the past. Now, The Most High God says, "This is my Son ... listen to him." This teaches us that anything Moses, Elijah or any of the Prophets of old said is not greater than the one God uses now to speak to us! His Son! He is greater than Moses and Elijah.
    Where Did Elijah and Moses Come From?
    Both Prophets Elijah and Moses were long dead. The promised resurrection has not occurred yet and neither had Jesus ascended into heaven at this time.
    We have two possible scenarios: (1) It was not Moses and Elijah that Jesus was conversing with. Quite possibly angels. How did Peter know that the persons were Elijah and Moses. They lived in a different time period and he never saw them and would not know what they looked like. Additionally, when Peter said to Jesus,
    Lord, it is fine for us to be here. If you wish, I will erect three tents here, one for you and one for Moses and one for E·li′jah.
    Jesus NEVER acknowledged to Peter that these persons were Elijah and Moses. Rather, God intervened and identified Christ as His Son and the one to be listened to. Peter made that assumption.
    The other scenario is that of a vision of a future time period where Moses and Elijah would be resurrected. That persons who preceded Christ would be resurrected. And even in that future time period, Christ is greater.

    At John 3:16 we are told:
    For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, in order that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life.
    This means that ALL persons born since Adam and who have died (even up to this day) are in their graves awaiting a resurrection. That includes persons who never knew Christ. That includes Moses and Elijah who are now dead. That is the promise we see at John 5:28-29:
    Do not marvel at this, because the hour is coming in which all those in the memorial tombs will hear his voice and come out, those who did good things to a resurrection of life, those who practiced vile things to a resurrection of judgment.
    Notice that ALL in their graves will hear his voice and come out. NOT "some" but ALL.
    It is for all of mankind Christ died, not just for "some."
    ALL of mankind qualifies for a resurrection from the dead. (Born again from the dead). That DOES NOT mean that ALL will attain everlasting life. Upon their being resurrected they will first have to be taught God's righteousness; that is, good and bad as God defines it. At present, we "do not know" good and bad. That is why Jesus ask of his persecutors and executioners at Luke 23:43,
    Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing.
    All of mankind is in a state of "not knowing what we are doing." That is why Jesus never condemned anyone because he knows that we have not been taught "good and bad." We do not know!
    Yet, at the resurrection and having gone through his 1000 year kingdom, we will know. And, then there will be no more forgiveness of sins because Christ will no longer be out intercessor. We will know "good and bad" for ourselves. So if we sin in those future days, we cannot say "we did not know" because we will "know what we do." Sin in those future days cannot be forgiven and the punishment for it is The Lake of Fire (The Second Death). Rev 20:14.
    When Christ 1000 year kingdom ends, mankind will know good and bad. (Rev 20:6)
    Everyone living today and who will die and persons who died in the past since Adam (to include Adam) WILL be resurrected back to life again. They will "meet the Lord in the air." In other words, in their graves they do not breathe. But when they are resurrected back from the dead, they will breathe air again.
    So no one goes to heaven PERIOD. Think about this to: If God's Kingdom comes DOWN to the earth, why does anyone need to go UP to heaven? (Matthew 6:9,10)
    All of mankind who ever lived will receive a resurrection back to life again from the dead. Look at the examples of persons Jesus resurrected, how many of them were NOT his followers?
    That ALL will be resurrected from the dead is what Christ promised. People should try listening to the Master rather than listening to these religious groups who think they have a special relationship with God and who teach what Christ did not.
    Few of the people who Jesus resurrected had a special relationship with him. Some never knew him at all.

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