Parents, A Rational Choice ?

by garybuss 21 Replies latest jw friends

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  Marilyn

  :::::I've had similiar experiences in my family. I could never, still can't, tell my father something he doesn't want to hear. He's a child, 81 going on 4; stuck with the emotional makeup of a toddler. And I think you'll find that true of ALL Jehovah's Witnesses: emotional midgets.

  Gary, Your comments are always well and truly worth reading.

  I just wanted to comment on Francios's post. My father is 80 and I left the Organisation 21 yrs ago. For a lot of years we clashed over the WTS beliefs - even though I was d'fed (for no longer believing in God), my father used to ask me "when are you coming back to the truth?" and make comments like "you really know it's the truth". I always respected my father's mind because he would sit and read a TIME magazine from cover to cover or enthusiastically read the investigative articles in the newspaper but apparently his ability to critically analyse deserted him where the WTS was concerned. To make matters worse he'd suffered a major heart attack after I was d'fed and when ever we got into heated discussions he would have an angina attack. I was forced to back off a lot. I learned to pick my topics carefully and somehow over the years I have been successful in helping my father use his brain to think about what the WTS is really like. He's had a stroke more recently and gets a bit confused but in spite of his age and state of health, he knows what's wrong with the WTS. I'm very proud of him and it's proved to me that if you are patient and you demonstrate real humanity to loved ones they can eventually differentiate between WT truth and reality. I am sure that every case is different and it very much helped that my father and I are on the same wave length and have the same sense of humor. It just kills me when I make a witty oblique reference to something crazy about the Tower that my father is right there with me enjoying the joke.

  Marilyn
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  Perry

  GARY,

  What I have noticed with my family is a total inability to admit that they don't know everything. It seems that they start coming unglued at the seems if the thought that they don't have an answer for everything enters their mind.

  My family truly scares me because they will abandon anything, even family, if they cause them to question anything about their world view. I tried damn hard to keep my views to myself. But, my father wasn't happy until he pushed me to be honest. They have abandoned me. But, in their mind I have abandoned them. They will forever miss out on the love, and friendship that their youngest family member would love to give them. Why they choose this course rather than just agreeing to disagree is quite astounding. I can't understand why we can't just enjoy each other without discussing religion.

  It has only been recently that I have had the psychological strength to fully face what it means to grow up as a JW.

  The cold hard reality is that your family cannot love you if you are not mentally subordinate to the WT. Even if you are on drugs, make suicide attempts, are a criminal or whatever; if you still admit or act like the WT has mental or emotional authority over you, they will continue to see you.....with no problem.

  But, the minute you question WT hypocricy, you are abandonded forever.

  I'd rather live out the rest of my natural life without having to pretend. However, the minute a person does that, they must be prepared to face the harsh reality of emotional abandon from your dearest loved ones.

  I agree, a person must count the cost of standing for truth.
• 

  garybuss

  Marilyn, Thanks for the compliment. Hope you are having a great week.
  
  
  Perry, We have much in common. I have simply but the burden of initiating contact on the JW's. They have not done that, nor had they bothered to contact me for months and months before I confronted them with reality. They really shunned me years before I confronted them, but they did it in a slinky sleazy way.

  They would not inform me that an out of town cousin had died until three months after the funeral. They had family dinners and social events and did not invite me. But during this time, they accepted gifts from me, called me to ask my professional advice, borrowed my tractor to mow the Watch Tower Corporation owned property, borrowed my moving equipment to help their JW buddies move, but would not acknowledge me or thank me for moving their snow in winter.
  
  Thanks for your comments. I appreciate your posts here and on other threads as well.

  I had hoped some parents would comment here. How about it? Any parents here able to share the parent's side of this thread?
  
  Thanks all,
  
  gb
• 

  Nathan Natas

  Hi Gary,

  I am sorry for the pain you've been subjected to.

  I know it is small compensation, but many of us here love you for your contributions to the XJW community and are proud to have you as a friend and brother. You are not a stranger to us.
• 

  Sam Beli

  Gary said: “Sam, Is it your opinion that the whole idea of confrontation with relatives needs to be avoided to maintain rapport?”

  Yes, that is pretty much true. Talking honestly about WT stuff is impossible, so I don’t do it anymore. Awhile back my dad sent me a long letter. His letters had been upsetting to me for some time, so my wife opened his latest letter, skimmed it and recommended that I not read it. She was concerned about my health if I read it, so to this day, many months later, I have not read it. My dad has not asked about it, though we usually talk once a week on the phone (I take care of all of his business since he is in poor health now and would forget to pay his bills where he on his own). So, his dependence on me forces us to communicate; and that goes well if we avoid talking about the “truth.”

  “Is rapport more important than trying to inform them that they are deluded? I had a bad connection with them . . . now there is none at all.”

  Most die-hard JWs will not “hear” that they are deluded. Though I have tried, it does not work. Most JWs who become ex-JWs will probably try; most will fail. The JW mind is programmed to require close friends and relatives to be “obedient” to their masters in Patterson/Brooklyn. Strong willed JWs can not separate Paterson/Brooklyn from God. My connection has a lot of static in it especially when my dad tries to introduce “world conditions” into the conversation. When I sense that he is about to start down that road I try to interject a new subject. He is no longer mentally agile, so the strategy often works.

  “I did not know how happy my parents were to stay ignorant. Nor did I know how insecure they were in their beliefs. Plus, I had grossly underestimated the force of their reaction. I now know they did not mean it when they told me to bring my questions to them. That was just Watch Tower Corporation doctrine.”

  You are absolutely correct. You are only allowed to bring easy questions to them, ones that the WT has discussed and given them loads of information on. Of course, we all know (now) that the WT has avoided any valid explanation in many areas such as their blood doctrine. I showed my dad the “Consumers Report” chart that show the relative risks of transfusion vs. other risks such as being struck by lightning, fatal plane crash, etc. In my ignorance I assumed that he would at least consider this report as coming from an unbiased source. He would not consider it (or at least he refused to talk with me about it). He still is convinced that anyone receiving a transfusion is sure to get HIV. I think that he finds it too painful to consider, even privately, that he may have been mislead all of his adult life. Pain and pride keep lots of JWs from admitting their (and the WT's) error.
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  garybuss

  Sam, you wrote <Pain and pride keep lots of JWs from admitting their (and the WT's) error.>
  
  Good point. Do you think they are aware of the lack of availability of an alternative hope on a cognitive level?
  
  So many I am aware of seem restless and unable to be comfortable with their own lives on this planet. Often they seem to focus on destruction when they work on construction. Constructing a larger publishing corporation with more members, constructing buildings to be used by the publishing company.

  My own father sees material success as religious failure and material failure as religious failure as well.
  
  gb
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  LDH

  Perry, you said
  {quote]a total inability to admit that they don't know everything. [/quote]

  This is SO true my friend. They actually do believe that everything will be solved by the slaughter of 6 billion people!

  Before you can even ask the question, their brains are already developing the answer. The training that takes place at all levels is to redirect the question, and not answer it.

  Do you know what a C.O. (Ray Gwiazdowski) actually told us? At pioneer school he said "if our bible student asks us will he have to stop celebrating Holidays etc etc.?" Ray said directly, our answer should be, "Don't worry about that! I'm only here to share Bible truths with you. You can decide about that later!" CLASSIC misdirection.

  Most of the time when you ask them what they feel, they will tell you "the Bible says," etc. They have been indoctrinated to stop thinking or feeling or anything that may cast a shadow on the WBTS.

  Very very sad.

  Lisa
• 

  Sam Beli

  Gary said: “Do you think they are aware of the lack of availability of an alternative hope on a cognitive level?”

  Sure (if I understand your question). Among their first responses is the old “where else will you go?” They see no alternative to WT theology as having any merit. We (x-JWs) have come to appreciate that this thinking flies in the face of Jesus ministry to follow Him. I think that they are aware and afraid to think about an unknown future. It is too scary for them to contemplate for long, so they crawl back into their JW cocoon.

  “So many I am aware of seem restless and unable to be comfortable with their own lives on this planet. Often they seem to focus on destruction when they work on construction. Constructing a larger publishing corporation with more members, constructing buildings to be used by the publishing company.”

  Great observation, Gary. This illustrates one aspect of their cognitive dissonance: building all the while hoping for destruction. They condemn 9-11 while hoping upon hope for a much greater 9-11 from the heavens.

  “My own father sees material success as religious failure and material failure as religious failure as well.”

  It is “thinking” like this that keeps JWs unsettled and their emotions stirred up constantly. They can’t ever be content with conflicts like this rattling around in their brain.
• 

  Perry

  Gary,

  All I can say is ditto to the things you've experienced. Sounds like many experiences are virtually identical to mine. The real problem for guys like you and me is the numbers.

  Frued said insanity is common in groups and extremely uncommon in individuals. With my family, there are many more of them than there is of me. They have their insanity validated because numerically there is more opportunity.

  I wish all contientious orphans could have the validation that normal people get almost daily from their loved ones. The reality is that we must work hard at what many people simply get to experience as a gift. I don't know about you, but I will die for the friends that I now have that accept me and I them.

  BTW, thanks for the kind words. I also very much enjoy your posts....really.
• 

  Perry

  LDH,

  I coudn't have said it better myself. Even as a kid, I could sense the lack of knowledgeable foundation and regurgitation of WT rebuttals.

  Unfortunately, without education your options are limited in combating such stone-walling. And even if I could have, I can promise you that I was psychologically unprepared to deal with the harsh reality of shunning because of thought differences.

  I swear to God, we are a very unique people here on this board. I really do appreciate everyone here.