Another scripture that has questionable language with regard to satan

by cptkirk 13 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • cptkirk
    cptkirk

    of course even people with novice level bible understanding know that paul had a "thorn in the flesh", what they may not know, or not have bothered to also observe is the bizarre language with which was used to convey this thought.

    "turn with me in your bibles please to 2corinthians 12:7" <----lol

    an "angel of satan" was sent to paul.......hmmm, were the writers of the bible apostates? they called satan's minion an angel? it is more interesting than that though. why would one of satan's "angels" want to help jehovah? in other words, it was apparently determined that paul was too high on himself, and therefore he needed a constant reminder so that he would stay humble, what the hell does satan care about this? *clears throat* *ahem* hey satan, i got this guy paul here and he is really an egomaniac, so i was just wondering, would you help me out here and send one of your "angels"? (and when i say send i don't mean like one time), i mean send to stay with him constantly, and just slap that son of a bitch every now and again? ok thanks.

  • Phizzy
    Phizzy

    I think Paul was influenced both by the Job story and the limited knowledge of the day. Maladies of all sorts were attributed to the person having a "demon".

    Just another example of why no one should put any trust in the words of guys writing 2000 or so years ago. Even the Man from Gallilee didn't seem to have basic medical knowledge.

  • prologos
    prologos

    It does not mention Satan directly , but in

    I Kings 22:19 ---Jehovah sitting on his throne----all the army of the heavens standing--to his right,--left. (like in the fable of Job)

    verse 21:--finally a SPIRIT (SATAN?) came out and said-- I shall FOOL him-

    22:--become a desceptive spirit in his mouth (LIE?) ---

    23: --Jehovah has put a deceptive spirit in the mouth--- (predicting success)

    But Jehovah HIMSELF has spoken calamity--

    This confusing account has Jehovah using Satan? (father of the lie) or sanctioning him to lie and deceive. of course

    The bible fables are about the deception.

  • Tiktaalik
    Tiktaalik

    @ Phizzy: >>> Maladies of all sorts were attributed to the person having a "demon".

    Righto, that'd be "Kingdom Maladies" then.

  • transhuman68
    transhuman68

    What Phizzy said. Paul's letters were written before anything else in the Christian-Greek scriptures, so Paul probably was thinking of Job's misfortune compared to his own, and Satan was still thought of as one of the good 'ol boys in heaven at the time, until he was portrayed as the bad guy in Revelation.

  • Phizzy
    Phizzy

    Yes and Revelation clearly shows that the devil was not cast down to earth uintil the WT says he was. As long as you put any credence on WT wacky interpretations that is.

  • PSacramento
    PSacramento

    2Corinthians 12 is a very intersting chapter and there are many questions and interpretations about it.

    Was Paul speaking of Himself or perhaps John when he spoke of the man who went up to heaven?

    What was Paul's afflection?

    Was Paul that insecure about himself and those that he preached too? how worried was he that his message had fallen because of His past?

    How bad were things in Corinth?

    THe whole point of the passage is, IMO, that boasting about what one has seen, that one has been chosen, the persecutions one has endured ( as he had written about in the past) was NOT correct. That, as Paul said, "Boast only of the Lord" ( Paraphrasing).

    Paul believed that because of his arrogance He was given an afflection and that this was to be like a "messenger from Satan" to remind him always of thge price of arrogance.

    2 Corinthians 12

    New American Standard Bible (NASB)

    Paul’s Vision

    12 Boasting is necessary, though it is not profitable; but I will go on to visions and revelations of the Lord. 2 I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago—whether in the body I do not know, or out of the body I do not know, God knows—such a man was caught up to the third heaven. 3 And I know how such a man—whether in the body or apart from the body I do not know, God knows— 4 was caught up into Paradise and heard inexpressible words, which a man is not permitted to speak. 5 On behalf of such a man I will boast; but on my own behalf I will not boast, except in regard to my weaknesses. 6 For if I do wish to boast I will not be foolish, for I will be speaking the truth; but I refrain from this, so that no one will credit me with more than he sees in me or hears from me.

    A Thorn in the Flesh

    7 Because of the surpassing greatness of the revelations, for this reason, to keep me from exalting myself, there was given me a thorn in the flesh, a messenger of Satan to torment me—to keep me from exalting myself! 8 Concerning this I implored the Lord three times that it might leave me. 9 And He has said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for power is perfected in weakness.” Most gladly, therefore, I will rather boast about my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may dwell in me. 10 Therefore I am well content with weaknesses, with insults, with distresses, with persecutions, with difficulties, for Christ’s sake; for when I am weak, then I am strong.

    11 I have become foolish; you yourselves compelled me. Actually I should have been commended by you, for in no respect was I inferior to the most eminent apostles, even though I am a nobody. 12 The signs of a true apostle were performed among you with all perseverance, by signs and wonders and miracles. 13 For in what respect were you treated as inferior to the rest of the churches, except that I myself did not become a burden to you? Forgive me this wrong!

    14 Here for this third time I am ready to come to you, and I will not be a burden to you; for I do not seek what is yours, but you; for children are not responsible to save up for their parents, but parents for their children. 15 I will most gladly spend and be expended for your souls. If I love you more, am I to be loved less? 16 But be that as it may, I did not burden you myself; nevertheless, crafty fellow that I am, I took you in by deceit. 17 Certainly I have not taken advantage of you through any of those whom I have sent to you, have I? 18 I urged Titus to go, and I sent the brother with him. Titus did not take any advantage of you, did he? Did we not conduct ourselves in the same spirit and walk in the same steps?

    19 All this time you have been thinking that we are defending ourselves to you. Actually, it is in the sight of God that we have been speaking in Christ; and all for your upbuilding, beloved. 20 For I am afraid that perhaps when I come I may find you to be not what I wish and may be found by you to be not what you wish; that perhaps there will be strife, jealousy, angry tempers, disputes, slanders, gossip, arrogance, disturbances; 21 I am afraid that when I come again my God may humiliate me before you, and I may mourn over many of those who have sinned in the past and not repented of the impurity, immorality and sensuality which they have practiced.

  • Pterist
    Pterist

    At the risk of being attacked by the obvious critics, and of course they are entitled to their opinion.

    The bible gives us examples of this type of "procedure" that can cause "cognitive dissidence". The kings of Babylon, Cyrus of Persia, Pharaoh of Egypt, Joseph's brothers. All contributed to God's overall plan and at the same time the "agents" used were responsible for their actions......

    In my simple mortal mind, I have to except as a believer, that God's ways are not my ways. As Christ is slain in eternity, before the FOUNDING of the world, I now perceive his plans, as a master chess player that can see, all the variables of free will choices of every individual in "TIME" and still use and hold accountable all, in accomplishing his intended creation of immortal sons and daughters. Ephesians 1:3-10. IMHO

    Shalom

  • James Brown
    James Brown

    Biblically, I think Satin is God's right hand man, the brother of Jesus.

    Satin is an instrument of God.

  • cptkirk
    cptkirk

    messenger of satan eh? would like to see them argue on translation there. thankfully we do have lars here to give us threads like these (as he says time is running out and we must know the deeper things such as satan being married to jesus LOL):

    http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/205873/1/ADVANCED-Jesus-once-married-to-Satan

    i'd like to see lars and paul in group therapy. i say that with love lars.

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