Another probe of the Governing Body theory

by QC 27 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • DATA-DOG
    DATA-DOG

    One thing to remember is that Christ appointed Saul of Tarsus. So had Paul's spiritual brothers said anything contrary to Christ's instructions for Paul, then Paul would have called them on it. That was the case with Peter. Just because Paul chose to cooperate with his spiritual brothers, the body of Christ, that does not prove a hierarchy existed.

    EdenOne said,

    " Can you see the similarities with Acts 15? Paul and his companions present a report to the elders in Jerusalem. Who is presiding over them? Again, James is. The person who presents a report to someone is in subjection to the one receiving the report. Again, by 58 CE, this group of men in Jerusalem were Christ's appointed leadership of the christian congregation and were recognized as such by the congregations and individual apostles like Paul. "

    Read through Acts 15 in the ESV. There is no indication that Paul was subservient to a GB. Presenting a report paints the picture of an employee reporting to his employer. That was not the case. Paul related the powerful deeds accomplished via Holy Spirit concerning the Gentiles to his brothers who could not be eyewitnesses of these deeds. This would naturally be the case since all were members of the " Church " even though they were separated geographically. That's it. That's all there was. Seperate congregations in different locations on a map. All equal, all united in faith through Christ. Yes there were older men, mature men with experience. Certainly Paul did not come in with any delusions of grandeur, thinking to show these men what real spirituality was, or try to take over. He simply respected them as his brothers, and they reciprocated.

    So in a verse such as Acts 15:2 where it speaks of Paul and Barnabas being appointed to go up to Jerusalem, it doesn't mean they were sent out as subordinates, like a CO being sent out by the GB. They simply met to speak about a pressing issue. For whatever reason, Paul and Barnabas and others were the best choice to make the trip. The concept of a hierarchy was nowhere to be found. That is a remnant of WTBTS thinking that we all need to get rid of, just as Jesus' disciples had to let go of the concept of " greatness " that they learned from the Jewish religious leaders of their day.

    I would like to recommend an excellent series of videos made by a brother. Go to Youtube and search for arp7601. You may need to sign in. The series is called The Channel of God: Part 1- The Walsh Trial. There are several parts, at least 7. They are all excellent, and the issue of a first century GB is considered, as well as what being an Elder or older man really meant. We have a skewed view of these terms today.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOjmHne4iyk

  • Pterist
    Pterist

    Data-Dog! Thanks for the link

  • DNCall
    DNCall

    How effective was the one edict that came out of the meeting in Jerusalem? That meeting occurred in 49 CE.

    As Paul revisited various congregations my means of his letters he had to also revisit the circumcision issue because whatever was decided in Jerusalem did not bind the other congregations. In 50-52 CE Paul had to counsel the Galations about returning to the yoke of slavery to the law. In 55 CE Paul had to settle disputes in the Corinthian Congregation regarding circumcision. In 60-61 CE, Paul had to counsel the Philippians that debates over the circumcision issue were causing spiritual injury. Finally, in 61-64 CE, when writing to Titus regarding the Christians in Crete, he spoke of expelling from the congregation those who were furthering the controversy.

    Over time we see the issue becoming larger and more serious. This is hardly what you would expect from congregations bound by a decision made by a governing body in Jerusalem.

  • Pterist
    Pterist

    Consistant with what has been said here already, about Paul's ministery from Antioch and commissioned directly by Holy Spirit, Ray Franz in one of his books, (forget which one) related how Fred Franz used Paul's example to argue VERY FORCIBLY against the proposal of a "governing body" as he did not want to relinquish the mantle that came to him.

    Shalom

  • Pterist
    Pterist

    Observations:

    The "compromise" after the Jerusalem conference seems to be that James, Peter, etc (the Jewish super apostles!!!) would be apostles to the Jews (Israel) and Paul an apostle to the gentiles. When we read the letters of James, Peter, and Paul, they seem to hold to this agreement, as James addresses his letter to the 12 tribes scattered about, and Peter reminds Israelites of their precious goal and inheritance of being Kings and Priests and a blessing to the world.

    Shalom

  • EdenOne
    EdenOne

    Mind you, by defending that there was some sort of a collective body that took the leadership for some time during the first century (and I stand by what I wrote), nothing in the Bible indicates that this should be come a permanent institution or that it should be replicated in the future or in the "final days" or even that it was the sole channel by which God and Christ were directing the congregation in the first century. What I'm saying is that trying to attack the Governing Body based on the supposed inexistance of a collegial form of leadership in the first century is really a fragile argument.

    The current Governing Body could be a good solution IF only they would be following Christ, instead of glorifying themselves and undercut the christian freedom of the Witnesses. Alas, it's not the case ...

    Eden

  • caliber
    caliber

    Eden ....I agree the points you made are beyond question & common sense logic

  • DATA-DOG
    DATA-DOG

    I am not saying that was no collective group of spiritual persons helping others as well as themselves. There were collectives in each congregation. There was no GB as the WTBTS teaches today. That is very clear from the scriptures. There was no centralized authority. Fred Franz did very well in explain this. What were his motives for doing so, I can't say. Here is the talk.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ah6TJ5Aa2xg

  • Pterist
    Pterist

    Thanks for the above video, Data-Dog, it confirms the reference in Ray Franz's book about Fred Franz.

  • EdenOne
    EdenOne

    We all know that Fred Franz and Knorr were frontally opposed to the notion of a Governing Body.

    Knorr even said it would only happen over his dead body. He died shortly after.

    Eden

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