144,000 before 1935?

by nolongerconfused 15 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  tiki

  my mother was there - apparently the "other sheep" were family members, or people involved who really believed and wanted to be a part but did not feel anointed. so they were the jonadabs - but literature and everything was really geared for those with the heavenly hope - so it was determined that a secondary class was also being gathered - the great crowd of other sheep. they were announced as a distinct and separate group and there was much rejoicing. they could work hand in hand with the remnant fulfilling prophecy, with a hope of earthly eternal life in view.

  they were formally allowed the priviledge of baptism, and from that point on, most who came into the religion preferred an earthly future, so were deemed part of that every-burgeoning great crowd of faithful worshippers before the throne.

  back then too, those with the heavenly calling were very "offish" about family relationships - they were not destined to be a part of the earthly group so had some odd ideas about situations and relationships.
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  DATA-DOG

  Heavenly Calling closed? 8/15/1996 watchtower

  QuestionsFromReaders

  ThereportsforsomeyearsshowthatthenumberpartakingoftheMemorialemblemsincreasedslightly.Doesthissuggestthatmanynewonesarebeinganointedwithholyspirit?

  There is good reason to believe that the number of 144,000 anointed Christians was complete decades ago.

  At Acts 2:1-4, we read about the first ones in that limited group: "Now while the day of the festival of Pentecost was in progress they were all together at the same place, and suddenly there occurred from heaven a noise just like that of a rushing stiff breeze, and it filled the whole house in which they were sitting. And tongues as if of fire became visible to them and were distributed about, and one sat upon each one of them, and they all became filled with holy spirit and started to speak with different tongues, just as the spirit was granting them to make utterance."

  After that, Jehovah selected others, and he anointed them with his holy spirit. Thousands were added in the very early years of Christianity. At the Memorial celebration in our time, the speaker often calls attention to the apostle Paul's words at Romans 8:15-17, which mention that the anointed 'receive a spirit of adoption as sons.' Paul added that the holy spirit they receive 'bears witness with their spirit, that they are God's children, joint heirs with Christ.' Those who truly have this spirit-anointing know it with certainty. It is not a mere wish or a reflection of an emotional and unrealistic view of themselves.

  We understand that this heavenly calling continued down through the centuries, though during the so-called Dark Ages, there may have been times when the number of anointed ones were very few. With the reestablishment of true Christianity near the end of the last century, more were called and chosen. But it seems that in the mid-1930's, the full number of the 144,000 was basically completed. Thus there began to appear a group of loyal Christians with the earthly hope. Jesus termed such "other sheep," who unite in worship with the anointed as one approved flock.-John 10:14-16.

  The facts over the decades reflect both the completion of the calling of the anointed and Jehovah's blessing on the growing "great crowd," who hope to survive "the great tribulation." (Revelation 7:9, 14) For example, at the Memorial celebration in 1935, attended by 63,146, those partaking of the emblems in evidence of their profession to be anointed numbered 52,465. Thirty years later, or in 1965, the attendance was 1,933,089, while the partakers decreased to 11,550. Moving 30 years closer, in 1995 the attendance jumped to 13,147,201, but only 8,645 partook of the bread and the wine. (1 Corinthians 11:23-26) Clearly, as the decades passed, the number of those professing to be of the remnant greatly decreased-some 52,400 in 1935; 11,500 in 1965; 8,600 in 1995. However, those with earthly hopes have been blessed, and their number has increased abundantly.

  The most recent published report is for the year 1995, and it shows 28 more partakers than in the preceding year though the ratio of partakers to those attending did actually drop. On balance, that a few more chose to partake of the emblems is no cause for concern. Over the years some, even ones newly baptized, have suddenly begun to partake. In a number of cases, after a while they acknowledged that this was an error. Some have recognized that they partook as an emotional response to perhaps physical or mental strain. But they came to see that they really were not called to heavenly life. They asked for God's merciful understanding. And they continue to serve him as fine, loyal Christians, having the hope of everlasting life on earth.

  There is no need for any of us to be concerned if a person begins to partake of the emblems or ceases to do so. It really is not up to us whether someone actually has been anointed with holy spirit and called to heavenly life or not. Recall Jesus' solid assurance: "I am the fine shepherd, and I know my sheep." Just as assuredly, Jehovah knows those whom he has chosen as spiritual sons. There is every reason to believe that the number of anointed ones will continue to decline as advanced age and unforeseen occurrences end their earthly lives.
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  james_woods

  The important point we may be missing here is that there were clearly more than 144,000 christians long before 1000 C.E. - not just before 1935.

  The notion that the Russellites/JWs were the only (and the first) real christians is just pure hubris.

  And very stupic hubris at that.
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  DATA-DOG

  ' What Pastor Russel said '

  I don't know how to paste from a PDF, but according to the above mentioned book Pastor Russel believed that I.B.S.A had over 200,000 members.

  This interview was in 1913. Russel said that there had been Bible students for 1900 years. If god approved of only half of Russels estimation, then that means there were less than 44,000 persons who were acceptable when viewed through the ransom sacrifice of Christ from the outpouring of Holy Spirt in the first century, until Russels day... Actually less than 44,000 because we have to factor in today's partakers as well.

  If Russel was correct about 200,000 plus Bible Students earth wide, then what does that say about the current 144,000 teaching? Is it any wonder that ' What Pastor Russel said ' is not in the CD library?

  And very stupid hubris at that.
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  bennyk

  The Watch Tower Society taught until 1935 that the "Great Crowd" was a second class of Christians with a heavenly hope.

  The 144 000 were the Bride-class, the Great Multitude (Crowd) an attendant class ('Brides-maids').

  The increasing numbers of Bible Students affiliated with the Watch Tower Society did not force the change in doctrine. The teaching allowed for large numbers of heaven-bound Christians. The Watch Tower Society taught the following in the 1917 publication The Finished Mystery on page 103:

  FM103

  Was ten thousand times ten thousand, and

  thousands of thousands

  .— The number of the

  Great Company will apparently exceed one

  hundred millions. Num. 4:46-48 and Ex. 28:1

  indicate but one priest to each 2,860 Levites,

  which would make the number of the Great

  Company approximate 411,840,000.— T118,

  119; Dan. 7:10. 5:12

  Currently, belief that more than 144 000 will receive a heavenly reward will result in Disfellowshipping. (w 01. April 1986 QfR)
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  DATA-DOG

  " Approved association with Jehovah's Witnesses requires accepting the entire range of the true teachings of the Bible, including those Scriptural beliefs that are unique to Jehovah's Witnesses. "

  Walsh Trial:

  Q. You have studied the literature of your movement?

  A. Yes, but not all of it. I have not studied the seven volumes of "Studies in the Scriptures," and I have not studied this matter that you are mentioning now of 1874. I am not at all familiar with that.

  Q. Assume from me that it was promulgated as authoritative by the Society that Christ's Second Coming was in 1874?

  A. Taking that assumption as a fact, it is a hypothetical statement.

  Q. That was the publication of false prophesy?

  A. That was the publication of a false prophesy, it was a false statement or an erroneous statement in fulfillment of a prophesy that was false or erroneous.

  Q. And that had to be believed by the whole of Jehovah's Witnesses?

  A. Yes, because you must understand we must have unity, we cannot have disunity with a lot of people going every way, an army is supposed to march in step.

  Q. You do not believe in the worldly armies, do you?

  A. We believe in the Christian Army of God.

  Q. Do you believe in the worldly armies?

  A. We have nothing to say about that, we do not preach against them, we merely say that the worldly armies, like the nations of the world today, are a part of Satan's Organisation, and we do not take part in them, but we do not say the nations cannot have their armies, we do not preach against warfare, we are merely claiming our exemption from it, that is all.

  Q. Back to the point now. A false prophesy was promulgated?

  A.I agree that.

  Q. It had to be accepted by Jehovah's Witnesses?

  A. That is correct.

  Q. If a member of Jehovah's Witnesses took the view himself that that prophesy was wrong and said so he would be disfellowshipped?

  A. Yes, if he said so and kept persisting in creating trouble, because if the whole organisation believes one thing, even though it be erroneous and somebody else starts on his own trying to put his ideas across then there is disunity and trouble, there cannot be harmony, there cannot be marching. When a change comes it should come from the proper source, the head of the organisation, the governing body, not from the bottom upwards, because everybody would have ideas, and the organisation would disintegrate and go in a thousand different directions. Our purpose is to have unity.

  Q. Unity at all costs?

  A. Unity at all costs, because we believe and are sure that Jehovah God is using our organisation, the governing body of our organisation to direct it, even though mistakes are made from time to time.

  Q. And unity based upon an enforced acceptance of false prophecy?

  A. That is conceded to be true.

  Q. And the person who expressed his view, as you say, that it was wrong, and was disfellowshipped, would be in breach of the Covenant, if he was baptized?

  A. That is correct.

  Q. And as you said yesterday expressly, would be worthy of death?

  A. I think -- -- --

  Q. Would you say yes or no?

  A. I will answer yes, unhesitatingly.

  Q. Do you call that religion?

  A. It certainly is.

  Q. Do you call it Christianity?

  A. I certainly do.