THE WALSH TRIAL FOR NEW MEMBERS !!!!!!

by DATA-DOG 14 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • DATA-DOG
    DATA-DOG

    Just wanted to make some information available for newer ones. I am a born-in third generation ( or is it one overlapping generation..I get so confused) and I had no idea these court transcripts even existed until almost 2 years ago. I don't want to assume that you have read these. They are extremely enlightening as the show the basic mindset that still exists to this day within the Organization. They show the utter folly of trusting men, or placing your hope of salvation in any man. The following are some highlights, and a link. ( I used bold type for emphasis ) Enjoy!

    SCOTLAND: In 1954 in Scotland the Jehovah's Witnesses sued the Ministries of Labour and National Services. This was a test case brought by the Society to set a precedent for future Witnesses.

    Mr. H.C.Covington, the head legal counsel of the Society at that time, gave the following testimony:

    Q. Is it not vital to speak the truth on religious matters?

    A. It certainly is.

    Q. Is there in your view room in a religion for a change of interpretation of Holy Writ from time to time?

    A. There is every reason for a change in interpretation as we view it, of the Bible. Our view becomes more clear as we see the prophesy fulfilled by time.

    Q. You have promulgated -- forgive the word -- false prophesy?

    A. We have -- I do not think we have promulgated false prophesy, there have been statements that were erroneous, that is the way I put it, and mistaken.

    Q. Is it a most vital consideration in the present situation of the world to know if the prophesy can be interpreted into terms of fact, when Christ's Second Coming was?

    A. That is true, and we have always striven to see that we have the truth before we utter it. We go on the very best information we have but we cannot wait until we get perfect, because if we wait until we get perfect we would never be able to speak.

    Q. Let us follow that up just a little. It was promulgated as a matter which must be believed by all members of Jehovah's Witnesses that the Lord's Second Coming took place in 1874?

    A. I am not familiar with that. You are speaking on a matter that I know nothing of.

    Q. You heard Mr. Franz's evidence?

    A. I heard Mr. Franz testify, but I am not familiar with what he said on that, I mean the subject matter of what he was talking about, so I cannot answer any more than you can, having heard what he said.

    Q. Leave me out of it?

    A. That is the source of my information, what I have heard in court.

    Q. You have studied the literature of your movement?

    A. Yes, but not all of it. I have not studied the seven volumes of "Studies in the Scriptures," and I have not studied this matter that you are mentioning now of 1874. I am not at all familiar with that.

    Q. Assume from me that it was promulgated as authoritative by the Society that Christ's Second Coming was in 1874?

    A. Taking that assumption as a fact, it is a hypothetical statement.

    Q. That was the publication of false prophesy?

    A. That was the publication of a false prophesy, it was a false statement or an erronious statement in fulfilment of a prophesy that was false or erroneous.
    Q. And that had to be believed by the whole of Jehovah's Witnesses?

    A. Yes, because you must understand we must have unity, we cannot have disunity with a lot of people going every way, an army is supposed to march in step.

    Q. You do not believe in the worldly armies, do you?

    A. We believe in the Christian Army of God.

    Q. Do you believe in the worldly armies?

    A. We have nothing to say about that, we do not preach against them, we merely say that the worldly armies, like the nations of the world today, are a part of Satan's Organization, and we do not take part in them, but we do not say the nations cannot have their armies, we do not preach against warfare, we are merely claiming our exemption from it, that is all.

    Q. Back to the point now. A false prophesy was promulgated?
    A. I agree that.

    Q. It had to be accepted by Jehovah's Witnesses?

    A. That is correct.

    Q. If a member of Jehovah's Witnesses took the view himself that that prophesy was wrong and said so he would be disfellowshipped?

    A.Yes, if he said so and kept persisting in creating trouble, because if the whole organisation believes one thing, even though it be erronious and somebody else starts on his own trying to put his ideas across then there is disunity and trouble, there cannot be harmony, there cannot be marching. When a change comes it should come from the proper source, the head of the organisation, the governing body, not from the bottom upwards, because everybody would have ideas, and the organisation would disintegrate and go in a thousand different directions. Our purpose is to have unity.

    Q. Unity at all costs?

    A. Unity at all costs, because we believe and are sure that Jehovah God is using our organisation, the governing body of our organisation to direct it, even though mistakes are made from time to time.

    Q. And unity based upon an enforced acceptance of false prophecy?

    A. That is conceded to be true
    .

    Q. And the person who expressed his view, as you say, that it was wrong, and was disfellowshipped, would be in breach of the Covenant, if he was baptized?

    A. That is correct.

    Q. And as you said yesterday expressly, would be worthy of death?

    A. I think - - -

    Q. Would you say yes or no?

    A. I will answer yes, unhesitatingly.

    Q. Do you call that religion?

    A. It certainly is.

    Q. Do you call it Christianity?
    A. I certainly do.

    There you go... The proper channel is the Governing Body, not the Faithful and Discreet Slave Class, or God's Word, even in 1954. The hierarchy is ran from the top down, and you are at the bottom. As one of Jehovah's Witnesses you must accept what you are told, even if it is a false prophesy. The Organization would disintergrate if everybody had ideas. If you persist in believing what is true, that is, the opposite of the false prophesy or current idea loved by the Governing Body, you will be DF'd and are worthy of death.

    If you still have any questions as to why the WTBTS practices revisionist history, and does not make all the old publications available for study, or why the online Library only goes back to 2000, now you know. Controlling information while at the same time dispensing mis-information is a powerful tool used by the WTBTS. Read court transcripts from modern cases, and see if they have changed their tune, or if they are singing the same old song...

    http://www.forananswer.org/Top_JW/WalshTrial.htm

  • Pterist
    Pterist

    Marked

  • 00DAD
    00DAD

    Good call!

    I was just thinking of this yesterday and meant to look it up. Thanks for doing the legwork for me!!!

    00DAD

  • Las Malvinas son Argentinas
    Las Malvinas son Argentinas

    The tragedy about the Walsh case is that they couldn't have confronted Rutherford or Russell about their lies before their deaths. Instead, Covington and Franz had to cover for them and their prophetic musings. I almost felt sorry for him having to try and defend that.

  • DATA-DOG
    DATA-DOG

    I don't feel sorry for them, they knew. Just imagine trying to pretend that you had no knowledge of the real story while being on the GB. They knew they were trying to spin, spin, spin. The lastest GB have learned to hide behind concepts like ' theological arrangements '. It was the naivety of the GB back then that landed them in court. They pull every string and play every card to stay out of court today. That would be the death of the Organization, the Governing Body on the stand, under oath!! Can you them having to sit there, under the authority of a ' worldy ' Judge? A top notch Lawyer could really expose them for all to see, and it would be on record for the public. Oh yeah, their legal teams of Elders scheme and scheme to keep those Fat Cats out of the court room.

    They can't get Warwick built fast enough... RETREAT!!!!!

  • exwhyzee
    exwhyzee

    Thanks for re-posting this for those of us who hadn't seen it.

  • DATA-DOG
    DATA-DOG

    Bumping for newbies.

  • Amelia Ashton
    Amelia Ashton

    Thanks for that I had forgotten all about that trial. There is so much they got up to but some information needs preserving for all time.

    Q. If a member of Jehovah's Witnesses took the view himself that that prophesy was wrong and said so he would be disfellowshipped?

    A.Yes, if he said so and kept persisting in creating trouble, because if the whole organisation believes one thing, even though it be erronious and somebody else starts on his own trying to put his ideas across then there is disunity and trouble, there cannot be harmony, there cannot be marching. When a change comes it should come from the proper source, the head of the organisation, the governing body, not from the bottom upwards, because everybody would have ideas, and the organisation would disintegrate and go in a thousand different directions. Our purpose is to have unity.

    Apostates do not need to make up lies about JWs, they produce enough rope all by themselves.

  • TheSnarkyApologist
    TheSnarkyApologist

    It is a GREAT thing you do here....

    We need to let the NEWBIES know what they are in for, and why things are the way they are for them.

    This may be of benefit to some....

    http://thesnarkyapologist.blogspot.com/2013/02/1954-douglas-walsh-watchtower-trial.html

    Blessings!

    Bill

  • Bella15
    Bella15

    Reading this transcript a couple of years ago made me opened my eyes even wider ... everyone should make an effort to read it ...

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