What happens when you argue with JW's?

by Terry 25 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • ÁrbolesdeArabia

    Terry, why do JWs equate leaving the Watchtower's false doctrine with heading to another group teaching bad doctrine? From the begining dubs are ingrained with "Where will I go, you (Jesus Christ Faithful Slave) have saying of life!" There are people who really would be lost without anyone telling them "how, what, where, when and why to live" as a group we were spiritual children purposely held down to prevent true spiritual growth and developing our own Christian conscience. I can read your post and see myself arguing with you five years ago, squirming and trying to remain calm while climbing over each Mount Everest obstacle you present to me. We are held in captivity to men who have no grasp on the difficulty of making a living or dealing with family dynamics.

    The Governing Body and their Writing Department read the "Reader Digest" version of Family Life and Developmental Psychology and spout off like Erik Erikson or some great psychologist. As a child growing up in the Organization, men from Bethel were not big on having children race up to them, shoo kids get off my platform!

    There is a serious disconnect because the Watchtower members live in a false reality instead of venturing into their followers field of living. Why were men like Knorr, Rutherford, Freddy Franz and other curmudgeons so screwed up, they never stepped out of their comfort zone into the trenches where the war was being fought!

    Nobody has the strenght to endure those questions you presented to "JW" and not think to himself "what if I am wrong?" does he still exist in Watchtower-Land? This piece was pure excellence, thank you for taking the time to share a piece of yourself with us!

    You had me at "It begins there......"

    "It begins there.....

    JW : "I just don't understand brothers who leave the organization and try to get other people to leave too."

    Me: "Seems logical IF they leave for reasons of conscience."

    JW: "If you don't believe what the society teaches then just leave. Why get yourself disfellowshipped? You will lose your friends."

    Me: "I suppose having your family and friends held in a hostage situation is not much of a choice, is it?"

    JW: "What do you mean?"

  • Joey Jo-Jo
    Joey Jo-Jo


    There are other factors that needs to be considered, the person who you spoke to does not simple live his life in this conversation. The conversation ends, and one or more can take place:

    Illogical reasoning

    Influenced by others

    Effected by the environment ( environment in the psychological sense meaning that the place this person his and the people he is interacting with forms part of the environment, and this environment changes the way this person thinks because it effects our biology.

    A pre ordained idea about you or death.

    These are just some of many explanations concluded through scientific evidence, but as well it's important to understand human nature.


    Our brains has this inbuild function that does not want conflicting ideas, it does not care who is right or wrong, it just wants avoids dissonance as much as possible so that we can live longer, negativity during the course of time becomes more and more blurred that when we recall a bad memory it never seems as bitter as it was. (unless you have PTSD).

    Look back to the history of man kind to the amount of stupidity that took place for one to feel wanted and accepted by others, for dead gods and dead kings and dead languages and dead cultures.

  • Terry

    There is also a moral inertia connected to being a Jehovah's Witness for over 50 years.

    The ritual of meeting attendance is the beating of their own heart. Each day brings its regularity of responsibility.

    Without these pulses all "meaning" is drained away and a sense of abandonment and disconnect rush in to fill the void with a greater void.

    Their world is inside their mind's construction. Destroy that world and the mind disintegrates.....

  • Vanderhoven7


  • finallysomepride


  • carla

    I don't have time to finish reading it now but wow! this guy could have been my jw!

  • Terry

    I don't think a conversation like this happens every day somewhere in the world.

    It would be rare.

    My JW buddy and I had a long, long personal history with many arguments, debates and conversation over a span of years having nothing to do with religion!

    We know each other's thinking well enough to have a "rehearsed" dancestep waiting in response. At least, I felt that I did.

    Plus, I've always suffered from a glib flow of thought like a boxer who is a counterpuncher. I attribute this to having grown up watching rapid fire comedians ad lib. Steve Allen was my hero.

    For all that---none of it means anything when it comes to being EFFECTIVE with an active, believing JW!

    There is no secret weapon or magic phrase or perfect approach.

    Like Alchoholism, the one suffering the disease has to hit rock bottom and WANT to change....

  • 88JM

    " What if you are expected by God to help downtrodden people and instead you are only a glorified magazine saleman? What if the only effective thing you have done your whole life is put money into the hands of people in Brooklyn NY who buy real estate, invest in stocks, wield power over hapless people and change their minds at regular intervals and pass it off as flashes of revelation from god?"

    Saving this one for later - very succinct.

  • wha happened?
    wha happened?

    One thing I noted from the exchanged is that the WT makes a careful directive regarding those who leave. The WT states that they ONLY leave for selfish reasons and then flip the false prophet accusation at those who leave. Claiming they are seeking followers for themselves. That's the biggest lie. I haven't met anyone who left to form their own religion. Just a few Internet idiots, who would be idiots in any circle. But the rank and file follow their direction in this.

    Scary how at the same time the JW denies the hostage situation, and then applies the hostage situation to himself, by stating he doesn't want to lose friends. Also the relationship issue. Like an abused mate with low self esteem issues, they won't leave because this organization will have them, and others may not. So they accept the sick relationship rather than doing something for themselves.

    I remember years back learning about very abusive and crazy religious such as the People's Temple. The followers would knee jerk in their defense of obviously duplicitios actions on the part of their leaders. I used to ask myself why they were so dumb to not see the hypocrasy. But the followers were emotionally abused, and groomed to reflect whatever their leaders wanted. I didn't understand that back then. I do now

  • Terry

    What's that old saying? "The Devil you know is better than the Devil you don't know".

    I've read that women who have been in abusive relationships are seldom comfortable dating "sweet and kind" men because it doesn't seem "real".

    But, when they meet a controlling man it suddenly "feels right" (i.e. they know how this world works).

    I hope that isn't true, but, it certaintly fits the mindset of a cult member.

    Where can they go means "who else can abuse me in a way that feels comfortable?"

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