If Daniel was the chief of the Magoi then why did God choose a pagan to be a prophet?

by I_love_Jeff 10 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • I_love_Jeff
    I_love_Jeff

    Two part question:

    If God allowed Daniel to be chief of the Magoi, why would the Magi be considered bad in the eyes of Jah, according to the Jehovah's Witnesses?

    The Jehovah's Witnesses of course believe that the Magi, pagan astrologers, were not God's messengers because of their dabblings in the occult. If that were true then why did God move the Star after the Magi talked to Herod? Why didn't God just get rid of the Magi somehow if they were considered pratitioners of an occult art which is automatically deemded wicked in God's eyes?

  • I_love_Jeff
    I_love_Jeff

    God controls the skies and the rain (Psalm 77:16-19)

    If God controls the skies then Satan has no power to control a Star let alone the planets, according to the Bible of course.

  • mP
    mP

    I love jeff:

    If God allowed Daniel to be chief of the Magoi, why would the Magi be considered bad in the eyes of Jah, according to the Jehovah's Witnesses?

    mP:

    You are approaching the q from th wrong angle or perspective. Astrology is never said to be evil or wrong, in fact we see it mentioned everywhere in the Bible. The story of Jesus birth in Matthew is of course astrology. If god hated it why is he using astrology to guide the magi to his son. If the star was the devil, again why would god risk his whole plan by allowing this. Its obviously not the devil as the text does not say this at all, all such stories are invention by xians who are trying to reason away wahts presented in b&w.

    The only astrology condemend is that done by pagans. Its like killing, its wrong to kill a jew but its fine to rape, kill, steal, enslave them if they are pagans as can be found in the OT. The commentary in the Bible is often taken from this perspective, all that is important is obedience to Jehovah via his priests. If you rspect the priests like King David did you can do anything.

    http://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/job/38

    1 Can you tie fast the bonds of the Ki′mah constellation, Or can you loosen the very cords of the Ke′sil constellation?

    32 Can you bring forth the Maz′za?roth constellation in its appointed time? And as for the Ash constellation alongside its sons, can you conduct them?

    33 Have you come to know the statutes of the heavens, Or could you put its authority in the earth?

    Lookup most other Bibles and they honestly translate the Hebrew words that are unintelligable to the average person. Mazzaroth=zodiac, Kesil=Orion etc.

    Basically the scripture says that Jehovah controls the zodiac which controls our lives. Its not particularly honest to fail to translate those terms. THe only reasoning is of course the WTS is trying to hide this. Ther eare other references to the zodiac in the Bible if you want to find them.

    from KJV

    http://www.ebible.org/kjv/JOB38.htm#V0

    Canst thou bind the sweet influences of Pleiades, or loose the bands of Orion? 32 Canst thou bring forth Mazzaroth in his season? or canst thou guide Arcturus with his sons? 33 Knowest thou the ordinances of heaven? canst thou set the dominion thereof in the earth?

  • mP
    mP

    I love Jeff

    Why didn't God just get rid of the Magi somehow if they were considered pratitioners of an occult art which is automatically deemded wicked in God's eyes?

    Occult means hidden it does not mean bad or evil. Xians dishonestly redefine occult for the convenience. No where does it say astrology is evil, the only condemnation is of certain people who happen to be astrologers and also worship other gods. In the case of Daniel there is nothing wrong w/ him being an astrologer because he worshipped jehovah, its that simple. Many peopl are condemned in the Bible the simplest unofying factor that they all share is their allegience.

  • Cold Steel
    Cold Steel

    Q: ...then why did God move the Star after the Magi talked to Herod?

    Answers by John A. Tvedtnes, specialist in ancient Near Eastern studies and instructor at the Brigham Young University–Salt Lake Center. Printed with permission.

    A: The star is perhaps the most puzzling aspect of the story, because the wise men are generally depicted as following the moving celestial body from their homeland (or a central meeting point) to Jerusalem, and then to Bethlehem. Our modern knowledge of astronomy makes it difficult to accept such a view. And since the new star was also seen by inhabitants of the American continent...it obviously couldn’t have hovered over the wise men. Their report to Herod that they had “seen his star in the east” (Matt. 2:2) may have meant that they themselves were in the east at the time, not that the star was in the east and moved westward. An alternate translation sometimes given to the Greek text is not “in the east” but “at its rising.”

    Q: If the wise men weren’t following the star from their homeland, how were they able to pinpoint the country where the new king would be born?

    A: We must attribute their knowledge to some tradition or prophecy in their homeland. They knew enough to come to Judea, but did not go directly to Bethlehem. Instead, they went to the palace in Jerusalem—a place where one would expect the birth of a king. When they appeared in Herod’s court, they asked, “Where is he that is born King of the Jews?” (Matt. 2:2.) Quite obviously, they knew they were looking for a Jew.

    While there is no hint in the Matthew account that the star “led” the wise men to the west from their homeland, there was some sort of directional indication when they went from Jerusalem to Bethlehem. (See Matt. 2:9–10.) Since Herod’s people had instructed them that the Messiah was to be born in Bethlehem (see Matt. 2:4–6), there was no need for the star to show the way there. But it would have been helpful in pinpointing the spot where they could find Jesus. (See Matt. 2:9.) We do not know exactly how it did this. ... Interestingly, one source indicates that it was an angel in the guise of a star. (See 1 Infancy Gospel 3:3.)

    Q: How many wise men were there, and who were they?

    A: We don’t know if the wise men rode camels. We don’t even know for sure how many there were. While some traditions indicate there were twelve of them, three is the most popular number because of the three expensive gifts—gold, frankincense, and myrrh. (See Matt. 2:11. ) [Note: Some scholars believe the Magi brought only two gifts—gold frankincense and myrrh. Gold frankincense was by far the most expensive and it was highly sought in the ancient Middle East. — CS]

    We are also uncertain about what they were and where they were from. It is possible that they were Jewish, for at that time there still lived in Babylonia and Persia a very large Jewish community—perhaps more numerous than the Jews under Herod’s rule. Some traditions use Old Testament passages to support the idea that they were kings. (See Isa. 49:7; Isa. 60:3–7.) Others cite Psalm 72:10, 15, [Ps. 72:10, 15] as evidence that the alleged three kings were from Tarshish, Sheba, and Seba, identified in medieval times with Spain, Ethopia, and Arabia.

    Other scholars believe the wise men were from Persia because the Greek word behind the King James Version translation of wise men (in Matt. 2:1, 7, 16) is Magoi, a Persian word sometimes rendered in English texts as Magi. This word, the origin of our English word magic, refers to priests in the Zoroastrian religion of ancient Persia. Early Christian tradition associates the coming of the Magi with a prophecy attributed to Zoroaster, whom ancient Persians accepted as a prophet. (See I Infancy Gospel 3:1, in The Lost Books of the Bible, New York: The World Publishing Co., 1926, p. 40.)

    Q: Why didn't God just get rid of the Magi somehow if they were considered practitioners of an occult art which is automatically deemed wicked in God's eyes?

    A: But why did God send the wise men to Bethlehem? It is true that Herod began his search for the young Messiah as a result of their visit. But news from the tale of the shepherds was bound to find its way to the court ultimately anyway. (See Luke 2:17–18.) Sooner or later, he would come searching for the child to destroy him. Joseph and Mary were poor and would not have had the means to travel out of Herod’s reach. Their poverty may, in fact, have been the reason they remained in Bethlehem rather than returning to Nazareth. But with the precious gifts brought by the wise men, they could escape into Egypt. Thus, it is likely that the arrival of the wise men was part of God’s plan for fulfilling prophecy and for preserving the family from danger.

    Another purpose may have been served by the wise men. We cannot know with whom they shared their experiences, but it is possible that they spread the knowledge of the Messiah’s birth to the Jewish community throughout Babylonia and Persia.

  • mP
    mP

    The jesus and the magi story is actually best explainted as a retelling of the Egyptian Saviour GOd story, Horus. The 3 kings are in the belt of Orion which is headed by Horus star, Sirius. Sirius is the saving star because when it reappears it marks the start of the flood season which was very important in Ancient Egypt given how dry it is. For whatever reason Matthew is retlling this story because obviously his audience woul dunderstand that he is saying Jesus is the same as Horus they die to "save" us.

  • maisha
    maisha

    a lot of speculation in all that...

  • mP
    mP

    Maisha:
    Who are you directing that statement towards ? Ill say one thing but Matthews use of the demonic magi as a force of good is really a big embarrassment for xians who claim astrology has no place in xianity.

  • I_love_Jeff
    I_love_Jeff

    The question is directed toward Jehovah's Witnesses BUT I would love to hear ex-Jehovah's Witness thoughts on this subject matter. THANK YOU SO MUCH, FRIENDS!!

  • I_love_Jeff
    I_love_Jeff

    Mp- This question is geared toward the Jehovah's Witnesses. I have a very good understanding of the historical meaning of the magi and know they were not influenced by satan. There were two types of Magi- the God-fearing Magi and the non God fearing Magi. Zoroastrianism is an interesting subject in itself but these particular Magi in the Bk of Daniel were most likely God-fearing people and not pratitioners of of sorcery.

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