A critical look at how the greek (charis) has been translated into GRACE

by Terry 14 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  designs

  I had an old guy start singing Amazing Grace to me out in service one time
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  Terry

  I think if you help somebody that person is helped regardless of your interior motives.

  Help is help.

  A postive action is worth much much more than the "thought" itself.

  As a JW i thought a lot of "good" things and never did them because they weren't on the agenda.

  I only thought I was helping people by starting a bible study with them.

  I was really wasting my time and theirs with "noble motives". Worthless!
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  DATA-DOG

  Well Jw's are wrong about a lot of things as you know, Terry. What you posted made sense to me. According to what the Bible says, no man can gain salvation by works. Then we read in James that faith without works is dead. So as you say, we have to do something, not just think about it. If we see someone in need and say " keep warm and well fed " but give them nothing then we have done nothing. Recirpocity comes into play IMO when we appreciate the ransom and are moved to do what we can for others. As PS said our intentions are important as well. We can trow a sandwich at a homeless guy and technically we have helped him, but we can do better than that. Even though we want to reciprocate, we just cannot ever pay God back for the gift of life. That is okay because he doesn't expect us too, it's a gift. What Father who loves his children expects them to pay him back for a gift?! Grace is a gift. Anything other explanation from humans is a twisted meaning with an agenda of inducing works through guilt.
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  Terry

  I'm convinced that God cannot love people UNconditionally and yet maintain any standards of morality or justice.

  Just being merciful isn't moral all by itself.

  If you find a scorpion in your child's crib you aren't being merciful by letting it stay all snug under the blanket.

  The idea of Salvation is a strange and peculiar end result with a long and twisting history.

  I've heard that in the olden times a Father would toss his son in the nearby lake and tell him to "sink or swim" in order to teach him how to man up.

  I don't know that such a description is accurate of either Fathers and sons or olden times.

  But, one thing for sure, God seems to be doing it in the Garden of Eden. He watches both Eve and Adam drown along with billions of their children.

  Then, he tosses the best swimmer in the universe in the water who promptly refuses to swim, then drowns and everybody cheers!

  Nope, a strange story indeed.
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  PSacramento

  I'm convinced that God cannot love people UNconditionally and yet maintain any standards of morality or justice.

  Sure He can, He's God, He is the only one that can. Now, does He? That is a tough one.

  I love my chidlren without conditons, in other words, I love them the same no matter what they do becaus emy love is not based on what they do ro earn that love, I love them because I am their father.

  I still punish them when I have to, not because I don't love them but because I DO love them.

  Just being merciful isn't moral all by itself.

  If you find a scorpion in your child's crib you aren't being merciful by letting it stay all snug under the blanket.

  The idea of Salvation is a strange and peculiar end result with a long and twisting history.

  It would depend on HOW one views salvation.

  I've heard that in the olden times a Father would toss his son in the nearby lake and tell him to "sink or swim" in order to teach him how to man up.

  I don't know that such a description is accurate of either Fathers and sons or olden times.

  My dad did that to me, I swam BUT I also KNOW that HE would be there to save me if I couldn't.

  But, one thing for sure, God seems to be doing it in the Garden of Eden. He watches both Eve and Adam drown along with billions of their children.

  Then, he tosses the best swimmer in the universe in the water who promptly refuses to swim, then drowns and everybody cheers!

  Nope, a strange story indeed.

  I am not sure about your analogy...

  God told Adam and Eve NOT to get into the water because if they did, they'd drown. They ignored them and while some will say they didn't drown, it seems we all have been drowing ever since.

  So God sent his best swimmer to teach Us how to swim.

  Why didn't God just save us from drowinging some ask?

  Because you can't save a drowing person that doesn't know they can't breath under water.