Haw!!! I LOVE it!!!
Unfortunately, most JWs are too bullied, intimidated and cowed to stand up to the Watchtower Society's "authority on earth"...
But for those who are at least semi-awake, it is a GREAT idea!!!
Invited to Attend a J W Kangaroo Court Proceeding: Tell Them to: Put the Reason for Requesting Your Presents in Writing Along With Any Alleged Charges of Wrong Doing, So You Can Give it To Your Lawyer.
by frankiespeakin 31 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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THE GLADIATOR
blondie Your response was perfect and the lack of response said it all.
I do so admire applied intelligence. You chip away on this forum with so many factual challenges to the Watchtower Society’s claims and reliability. Although you may not always receive a huge response you efforts are appreciated.
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Band on the Run
There is nothing a legal letter can do legally. They have every legal right to disfellowsihp you. Nevertheless, I think it is a good idea, esp. if you can afford a local lawyer whose name they will know, so it is not a I will run to a lawyer but I have a lawyer just as you do.
Procuring a lawyer shows you are not a meek lamb willing to be slaughtered. It challenges their legitimacy. The elders actions can not be enforced in a court of law. Recognizing their authority gives them legitimacy. I also tend to believe that many elders are in to be a big deal in a small pond. The best solution is not to cooperate. If you need to stay in, I would view seeing a lawyer as a very civil measure. You are merely leveling the playhing field a smidgeon b/c they have WT Legal behind them.
Practicing law opened my eyes to the lack of justice in the system. I can threaten legal action in my personal encounters. Companies and organizations are already lawyered up.
WT Legal will not be swayed by these letters. They have no legal mlerit unless the circumstances are unsual. You don't want a legal result, though, you want some fairness. If the goal is staying in, do it in a diplomatic way. NO screaming. They have power. You can have power. As long as you are participating, participate from a strrong position.
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frankiespeakin
BOTR,
I hope we can level the playing field a little. And this matter of fudiciary duty after all how would it look to the courts, if they flat out denied you your rights to be legally represented while conducting a trial, that has to be some type of violation and add that to the no recording devices allowed gotta count for something in your favor as grounds for a law suit,, and collecting damages for pain and suffering, showing total disregard for someone breaking free from a delusional state induced by the Governing Body and recognizing the lies taught to keep one in the delusion.
They should be held accountable to fudiciary duty towards those that have joined them in good faith that they were God's spokeperson and were duty bound to preach the truth,, instead they get the worst treatment imaginable for seeing the scam. Threats to enforce silence,,in an effort to keep lies in perpetuation among it devotees. I think if done righty can cause big changes in the Disfellowshipping policies of these grumpy old grumps.
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Band on the Run
No, the JWs are a private, religious organization. The govt. is forbidden to have excessive entangelement with religion. Perhaps a libel type action might be possible under extraordinary action. Private groups do not have to provide any due process. They can discriminate on the basis of race or gender. Look at the Roman Catholic Church. The First Amendment protects the JWs more than it protects its members.
What a lawyer or legal letter would accomplish is to hold them to norms. The letter cloaks you in power. A power that you create by not being deferential. It should be worded carefully. It needs to be assertive but not overly aggressive. Much depends on the sophistication of the elders. I was sickened by the WT Legal letter concerning pedophilia in the congregation. Rather than telling elders to comply with Caesar's laws or to consult a private lawyer, the order was to call WT Legal for further instructions. The WT has adverse interests to the elders. Individual elders are being sued for their negligence.
It is psych warfare. If you walk in powerless, with your head hung down.....they will really devestate you. If you hold yourself out as having rights equal to theirs, it is so rare in JW land that they will be floored.
Civil rights law almost always apply to the government. This forum is one such case. Simon decides who can post or not. He is the owner. There are not due process rights here.
I get so many fees, fines reversed by bypassing customer service and asking the corporate end. Sometimes I don't even state my case. I mention to look at the charge posted and how much it will cost the org. to face the Attorney General's office. The psychology is so important. If you are afraid as I would be, just pretend as "if" you were President Obama or someone iwth great power. The results are concrete.
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DesirousOfChange
There is nothing a letter can do legally.
Thanks, Band. Good to have an "expert's" thought on this.
All this quasi-legal maneuvering is BS in the USA. They have total authority to do what they want within their religion. There are no civil rights or legal rights. They will just announce that you are NO LONGER ONE OF JEHOVAHS' WITNESSES.
Done deal.
I can only see a potentially successful lawsuit if the JC handles things contrary to their written direction (by-laws) or in a totally negligent manner that results in a person harming themself or others, or being able to make a valid claim that clearly caused them psychological harm. And you'd have to have definite documentation of it, such as Ray Publisher's video recording.
For example, if you went to the Elders for counseling or confession (as the WT encourages in its written publications and says they are trained to handle such things) and they handled it totally WRONG. If they were explosive or argumentative or verbally abusive or belittling, then their actions may consitute negligence for a person who declares themselves to be in a pastorial position. I think a claim could be made that there is a reasonable expectation of how things should be handled by a person(s) who HOLD THEMSELVES UP as a qualified professional in such matters. The WTS clearly says that members should seek out the Elders in such matters and says (more and more so) that they ARE TRAINED in such matters.
Band (or any other legal expert).........any thoughts on that?
Doc
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frankiespeakin
Big Question:
If they refuse to allow you legal representative, and conduct the trial against you anyway, in your absents, and then proceed to enforce disfellowshipping action against you, will that put them in some kind of legal jepordy?
Could this not also open up the possiblity for a person to supena all records and documentation having to do with the said actions of the body of elders who took such actions? Maybe even supena the video made by the Governing Body giving direction to the elders to stop being so merciful in JC meetings?
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Vanderhoven7
marked
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Yan Bibiyan
In my opinion, the threat of suing individually would have the greatest impact. The hell with merits or if it will stick in court. Having to lawyer up (at individual expense, nevertheless) is a prospect that can't be appealing to any elder.
All for what - a d!ck measuring contest? Palease...
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metatron
I've wondered - what ever happened to the obscure legal basis of church establishment in part of Canada? (British Columbia?)
I recall that they had some law that said you had to permit church trials that were held in front of the whole congregation and voted on by the members, as to outcome.
metatron