Timeline for the seventy years?

by DarkFireWolf 10 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • DarkFireWolf
    DarkFireWolf

    I tried to make a little timeline for when the seventy years began and ended that correlates with history..I might take this to the elders to show them that 609-539 is completely possible for the 70 years while 607 dosen't go with history.I've been told by others in the congregation that we choose 607 because 537-70=607 and that Jerusalem being destroyed in 586/7 would only mean 50 years of exile.This is going to be a little bit long too as I've added in the scriptures that fit in this timeline.

    609

    Nabopolassars 17th year. Babylonians defeat the Assyrians. And the 70 years begin with them ruling over the nations.

    Jeremiah 25:17-26

    17 And I proceeded to take the cup out of the hand of Jehovah and to make all the nations drink to whom Jehovah had sent me:+ 18 namely, Jerusalem and the cities of Judah and her kings, her princes, to make them a devastated place, an object of astonishment,+ something to whistle at and a malediction, just as at this day;+ 19 Phar′aoh the king of Egypt and his servants and his princes and all his people;+ 20 and all the mixed company, and all the kings of the land of Uz,+ and all the kings of the land of the Phi·lis′tines+ and Ash′ke·lon+ and Ga′za+ and Ek′ron+ and the remnant of Ash′dod;+ 21 E′dom+ and Mo′ab+ and the sons of Am′mon;+ 22 and all the kings of Tyre+ and all the kings of Si′don+ and the kings of the island* that is in the region of the sea; 23 and De′dan+ and Te′ma+ and Buz and all those with hair clipped at the temples;+ 24 and all the kings of the Arabs+ and all the kings of the mixed company who are residing in the wilderness; 25 and all the kings of Zim′ri and all the kings of E′lam+ and all the kings of the Medes;+ 26 and all the kings of the north who are near and far away, one after the other, and all the [other] kingdoms of the earth that are on the surface of the ground; and the king of She′shach*+ himself will drink after them.

    Jeremiah 25:8-11

    8 “Therefore this is what Jehovah of armies has said, ‘“For the reason that YOU did not obey my words, 9 here I am sending and I will take all the families of the north,”+ is the utterance of Jehovah, “even [sending] to Neb·u·chad·rez′zar the king of Babylon, my servant,+ and I will bring them against this land+ and against its inhabitants and against all these nations round about;+ and I will devote them to destruction and make them an object of astonishment and something to whistle+ at and places devastated to time indefinite.+ 10 And I will destroy out of them the sound of exultation and the sound of rejoicing,+ the voice of the bridegroom and the voice of the bride,+ the sound of the hand mill+ and the light of the lamp.+ 11 And all this land must become a devastated place, an object of astonishment, and these nations will have to serve the king of Babylon seventy years.”’+

    Jeremiah 27: 12-14

    12 Even to Zed·e·ki′ah*+ the king of Judah I spoke according to all these words,+ saying: “Bring YOUR necks under the yoke of the king of Babylon and serve him and his people and keep on living.+ 13 Why should you yourself and your people die by the sword,+ by the famine+ and by the pestilence+ according to what Jehovah has spoken to the nation that does not serve the king of Babylon? 14 And do not listen to the words of the prophets that are saying to YOU men, ‘YOU will not serve the king of Babylon,’+ because falsehood is what they are prophesying to YOU.+

    Jeremiah 38: 17,18

    17 Jeremiah now said to Zed·e·ki′ah: “This is what Jehovah, the God of armies,+ the God of Israel,+ has said, ‘If you will without fail go out to the princes of the king of Babylon, your soul will also certainly keep living and this city itself will not be burned with fire, and you yourself and your household will certainly keep living.+ 18 But if you will not go out to the princes of the king of Babylon, this city must also be given into the hand of the Chal·de′ans, and they will actually burn it with fire,+ and you yourself will not escape out of their hand.’”+

    607

    Nabopolassars 19th year.Destruction of Jerusalem hasn't happened.

    605

    Nabopolassars 21st and last year, he dies and Nebuchadnezzar becomes king.

    Jeremiah 29:1, 20

    And these are the words of the letter that Jeremiah the prophet sent from Jerusalem to the remainder of the older men of the exiled people and to the priests and to the prophets and to all the people, whom Neb·u·chad·nez′zar had carried into exile from Jerusalem to Babylon

    20 “And as for YOU, hear the word of Jehovah, all you exiled people,+ whom I have sent away from Jerusalem to Babylon.+ 21 This is what Jehovah of armies, the God of Israel, has said concerning A′hab the son of Ko·lai′ah and to Zed·e·ki′ah the son of Ma·a·sei′ah, who are prophesying to YOU falsehood in my own name,+ ‘Here I am giving them into the hand of Neb·u·chad·rez′zar the king of Babylon, and he must strike them down before YOUR eyes.+ 22 And from them a malediction will certainly be taken on the part of the entire body of exiles of Judah that is in Babylon, saying: “May Jehovah make you like Zed·e·ki′ah and like A′hab,+ whom the king of Babylon roasted in the fire!”+ 23 for the reason that they have carried on senselessness in Israel,+ and they keep committing adultery with the wives of their companions+ and keep speaking falsely in my own name the word that I did not command them.+

    Daniel 1:1, 2

    In the third year of the kingship of Je·hoi′a·kim+ the king of Judah, Neb·u·chad·nez′zar the king of Babylon* came to Jerusalem and proceeded to lay siege to it.+ 2 In time Jehovah* gave into his hand Je·hoi′a·kim the king of Judah+ and a part of the utensils+ of the house of the [true] God,* so that he brought them to the land of Shi′nar*+ to the house of his god; and the utensils he brought to the treasure-house of his god.*+

    586/7

    Jerusalem burned. Nebuchadnezzar’s nineteenth/eighteenth year.

    Jeremiah 52: 12-16

    12 And in the fifth month, on the tenth day of the month, that is, [in] the nineteenth year of King Neb·u·chad·rez′zar,+ the king of Babylon, Neb·u′zar·ad′an+ the chief of the bodyguard, who was standing before the king of Babylon, came into Jerusalem. 13 And he proceeded to burn the house of Jehovah+ and the house of the king and all the houses of Jerusalem;+ and every great house he burned with fire.+ 14 And all the walls of Jerusalem, round about, all the military forces of the Chal·de′ans that were with the chief of the bodyguard pulled down.+

    15 And some of the lowly ones of the people and the rest of the people that were left remaining in the city+ and the deserters that had fallen away to the king of Babylon and the rest of the master workmen Neb·u′zar·ad′an the chief of the bodyguard took into exile.+ 16 And some of the lowly ones of the land Neb·u′zar·ad′an the chief of the bodyguard let remain as vinedressers and as compulsory laborers.+

    2 Chronicles 36:20, 21

    20 Furthermore, he carried off those remaining from the sword captive to Babylon,+ and they came to be servants to him+ and his sons until the royalty of Persia+ began to reign; 21 to fulfill Jehovah’s word by the mouth of Jeremiah,+ until the land had paid off its sabbaths.+ All the days of lying desolated it kept sabbath, to fulfill seventy years.+

    Leviticus 25: 8-12

    8 “‘And you must count for yourself seven sabbaths* of years, seven times seven years, and the days of the seven sabbaths of years* must amount to forty-nine years for you. 9 And you must cause the horn* of loud tone to sound*+ in the seventh month on the tenth of the month;+ on the day of atonement+ YOU people should cause the horn to sound in all YOUR land. 10 And YOU must sanctify* the fiftieth year and proclaim liberty* in the land to all its inhabitants.+ It will become a Jubilee*+ for YOU, and YOU must return each one to his possession and YOU should return each one to his family.+ 11 A Jubilee is what that fiftieth year will become for YOU.+ YOU must not sow seed nor reap the land’s growth from spilled kernels nor gather the grapes of its unpruned vines.+ 12 For it is a Jubilee. It should become something holy to YOU. From the field YOU may eat what the land produces.+

    2 Chronicles 36:13,14

    13 And even against King Neb·u·chad·nez′zar he rebelled,+ who had made him swear by God;+ and he kept stiffening+ his neck and hardening+ his heart so as not to return to Jehovah the God of Israel. 14 Even all the chiefs of the priests+ and the people themselves committed unfaithfulness on a large scale, according to all the detestable+ things of the nations, so that they defiled the house of Jehovah which he had sanctified in Jerusalem.+

    Jeremiah 34:2

    2 “This is what Jehovah the God of Israel has said, ‘Go,* and you must say to Zed·e·ki′ah the king of Judah,+ yes, you must say to him: “This is what Jehovah has said, ‘Here I am giving this city into the hand of the king of Babylon,+ and he must burn it with fire.

    Jeremiah 37:17

    17 And King Zed·e·ki′ah proceeded to send and take him, and the king began asking him questions in his house in a place of concealment.+ And he went on to say: “Does there exist a word from Jehovah?” To this Jeremiah said: “There does exist!” And he said further: “Into the hand of the king of Babylon you will be given!”+

    Jeremiah 39:4-9

    4 Now it came about that as soon as Zed·e·ki′ah the king of Judah and all the men of war saw them, they began to run away+ and to go out by night from the city by the way of the garden of the king,+ by the gate between the double wall; and they kept going out by the way of the Ar′a·bah.*+ 5 And a military force of the Chal·de′ans went chasing after them,+ and they got to overtake Zed·e·ki′ah in the desert plains of Jer′i·cho.+ Then they took him and brought him up to Neb·u·chad·rez′zar the king of Babylon at Rib′lah+ in the land of Ha′math+ that he might pronounce upon him judicial decisions.+ 6 And the king of Babylon proceeded to slaughter+ the sons of Zed·e·ki′ah in Rib′lah before his eyes,+ and all the nobles of Judah the king of Babylon slaughtered.+ 7 And the eyes of Zed·e·ki′ah he blinded,+ after which he bound him with copper fetters, in order to bring him to Babylon.

    8 And the house of the king and the houses of the people the Chal·de′ans burned with fire,+ and the walls of Jerusalem they pulled down.+ 9 And the rest of the people who were left remaining in the city, and the deserters that had fallen away to him, and the rest of the people who were left remaining Neb·u′zar·ad′an+ the chief of the bodyguard+ took into exile to Babylon.+

    562

    End of Nebuchadnezzar.

    557

    Neriglissars third year.

    556

    Nabonidus becomes king.

    539

    70 years are fullfilled.

    Daniel 5:25-30

    25 And this is the writing that was inscribed: ME′NE, ME′NE, TE′KEL and PAR′SIN.*

    26 “This is the interpretation of the word: ME′NE, God has numbered* [the days of] your kingdom and has finished* it.+

    27 “TE′KEL, you have been weighed* in the balances and have been found deficient.+

    28 “PE′RES, your kingdom has been divided* and given to the Medes and the Persians.”*+

    29 At that time Bel·shaz′zar commanded,* and they clothed Daniel with purple, with a necklace of gold about his neck; and they heralded* concerning him that he was to become the third ruler in the kingdom.+

    30 In that very night* Bel·shaz′zar the Chal·de′an king was killed+ 31* and Da·ri′us*+ the Mede himself received the kingdom, being about sixty-two years old.

    Jeremiah 25:12

    12 “‘And it must occur that when seventy years have been fulfilled+ I shall call to account against the king of Babylon and against that nation,’+ is the utterance of Jehovah, ‘their error, even against the land of the Chal·de′ans,+ and I will make it desolate wastes to time indefinite.+ 13

    2 Chronicles 36: 20, 21

    20 Furthermore, he carried off those remaining from the sword captive to Babylon,+ and they came to be servants to him+ and his sons until the royalty of Persia+ began to reign; 21 to fulfill Jehovah’s word by the mouth of Jeremiah,+ until the land had paid off its sabbaths.+ All the days of lying desolated it kept sabbath, to fulfill seventy years.+

    609-539 = 70 Years completed. This falls in line with both scripture and history. Jerusalem is burned and destroyed in 586/7. Daniel states that God has numbered the days of your kingdom and finished it, and in that very night, Belshazzar dies and Darius gets the kingdom. This finishes the seventy years of Babylon. And then Jehovah’s word is accomplished in 2 Chron. 36: 22, 23 by bringing the people back and allowing them to return to their land.

    So how does this look?Comments and criticism would be very much appreciated and any additional information would be too.I've been trying to do my own research on this and matching it up with scripture the best I can since I have trouble believing in 607 if there's no historical evidence that supports this date.Also, if any of you know of something in history that actually supports 607 for being the date of the destruction of Jerusalem, please show me as I haven't found any.

  • DesirousOfChange
    DesirousOfChange

    I might take this to the elders

    She-it! You ain't gonna find no elder that can cypher thru all that stuff even if he was willing to give it a try.

    I'm sure you have good motives, but you're still delusional about the idea that they might want to know the REAL truth.

    If the WT spent the good part of TWO (not one, two) issues on the subject of 607 about a year ago, that's all they need to know about it.

    Doc

  • biometrics
    biometrics

    I had an elder come over to 'study' with my wife. I asked him to prove 607. I even printed out the "Calculating 587 B.C. from the Watchtower" table from jwfacts.com (http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/607-587.php) and gave it to the elder so he could check the references.

    I'm expecting him over tonight to explain exactly how the Watchtower calculated 607 B.C.E as the fall of Jerusalem?

  • DarkFireWolf
    DarkFireWolf

    I understand that, if anything, I just want the elders to think a little and try to get them to doubt.Most, if not all, evidence points to 586/7 so there must be something wrong with 607.Biometrics, how did the elder explain it exactly?Was it the same 607 to 537 calculation?

  • NoStonecutters
    NoStonecutters

    Starting with 457 B.C. and adding 483 years, we arrive at 26 A.D. Right on target for Jesus. Messiah is cut off in the midst of the final week of seven years, bringing it to 490 by the time it's all said and done.

  • Pterist
    Pterist

    Excellent piece Darkfirewolf.

    I like to keep,it simple, like myself lol

    The WBTS accepts Babylons fall around 539/537 BC

    Jeremiah 25:11 ...... 11 This whole country will become a desolate wasteland, and these nations will serve the king of Babylon seventy years.

    539/537 + 70 years= 609/607 BC.....then let them do the math, as they prove it to themselves.

    Shalom

  • Black Sheep
    Black Sheep

    If you want a JW to think, you have to comunicate with them in such a way that they don't realise that you are the enemy described in every ragazine about APOSTATES.

    Once they see your APOSTATE hat, they don't have to consider anything you say. Facts have nothing to do with it any more, you need to correct your attutude or you're bird food and they need to protect the congregation from you.

    If you really want to have a go at an Elder, make him do the research and present the info to you. A degree in psychology might help.

  • DarkFireWolf
    DarkFireWolf

    I doubt an elder would actually research it, he'd probably just throw the Watchtower articles 'proving' 607 at me and tell me to read it.I don't plan on taking the whole thing to an elder, just scriptures and dates and raising questions since statements would cause them to shut me out.

  • Larsinger58
    Larsinger58

    Nice try, but...

    Jerusalem has to be destroyed first before the other nations experience the wrath of Nebuchadnezzar, so the 70 years cannot begin until after Jerusalem is destroyed.

    Even so, academically and historically, Josephus, the Jewish historian claims the 70 years occurred from the last deportation in year 23 of Nebuchadnezzar when the final remnant were removed out of Egypt and ends the 1st of Cyrus. So you have a "historical" contradition to the secular timeline that suggests the NB Period records were revised and some 26 years of NB history were removed during the Persian Period.

    At any rate, your 70-year solution is as valid an argument theory as any just as long as you know the "official" historical reference from the Jews (Josephus) specifically dates the 70 years from year 23, the last deportation (Jer. 53:30). Of course, the Bible agrees here since 70 years after the fall of Jerusalem per Zech 1 marks year 2 of Darius the Mede. After the fall of Jerusalem, Gedaliah was appointed as governor, likely later that year. At the beginning of the next year he invites those round about to return to Jerusalem to harvest summer fruits. All returned and did so, but in the 7th month of year 20, Gedaliah was assasinated. The Jewish remnant then ran down to Egypt and refused to return to Judea even at the bidding of Jeremiah, so Jehovah said he would send Nebuchadnezzar down to Egypt and wipe those people out with just a few "remaining from the sword" who would return to Judeah and then be deported to Babylon at the end of the same year, which was year 23. (Jer. 44:14,28). When the Jews in Babylon got word Gedaliah had been killed, they began to mourn and fast over him the following year. Thus we find at Zech 7 a confirmation that the mourning in the 7th month over Gedeliah for 70 years ended in YEAR 4 of Darius the Mede.

    This confirms a period of 70 years from the destruction of Jerusalem ending in year 2 of Darius the Mede, and 70 years of mourning for Gedaliah in the 7th month ending in the 4th of Darius the Mede. This was while the Jews were still in exile. But per Josephus, the Jews should have still been in exile since the 70 years did not begin until year 23, thus the Jews had 2 more years in exile before they were to return and this also means Darius the Mede ruled for six full years. The WTS does not reflect this history from Josephus which also matches the history from the Bible.

    So the bottom line is, even if you want to have a secondary or parallel fulfillment of the 70 years from 709-539 BCE as you note, it will have zero effect on the 70-year period from year 23 to the 1st of Cyrus. IOW, you steal have to deal with the historical 70 years from Josephus from year 23 to the 1st of Cyrus, whether or not you come up with a dozen convincing 70-year periods that work out for you connected to various events.

    But also apparent is the obvious and that is, you cannot coordinate the 70 years from Josephus with the current NB timeline which is 26 years shorter, that is, showing only a 50-year period from 587-537 BCE, etc, not that those dates are not revised. The quote from Josephus that you mus deal with is Ant. 11.1.1:

    1. IN the first year of the reign of Cyrus (1) which was the seventieth from the day that our people were removed out of their own land into Babylon, God commiserated the captivity and calamity of these poor people, according as he had foretold to them by Jeremiah the prophet, before the destruction of the city, that after they had served Nebuchadnezzar and his posterity, and after they had undergone that servitude seventy years, he would restore them again to the land of their fathers, and they should build their temple, and enjoy their ancient prosperity.

    CONCLUSION: The 70 years in the Bible and per the traditional history from Josephus dates a 70-year period from the last deportation out of Egypt to the 1st of Cyrus. That's regardless of any other 70-year period that might work out. Since the Bible and Josephus' 70 years don't agree with the secular timeline, you have to consider revisionism of the pagan records. Without doing that, you will never resolve the 70-year question.

    LS

  • Londo111
    Londo111

    Good research, DarkFireWolf. Well done.

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