If and when Holt gets a trial...

by Aussie Oz 17 Replies latest watchtower scandals

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  james_woods

  You can bet Watchtower legal is not happy with this situation.

  Absolutely - and the great local JW public relations sunshine pump has Watchtower Legal's fingerprints all over it.

  I agree that the police will try to investigate all possible connections - but I still doubt that the elder's involvement will make it to the trial, or that the elders or the society will ever face any liability over this other than the remote possibility of a civil case.

  I do not think that this was a death penalty state - but he will almost surely get life, likely without parole.
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  wha happened?

  This will all be forgotten in time without a civil trial against the society - and for that, we have no idea if a case really exists.

  Which will never happen, even if the elders knew about his sexual predator past. The pressure to not "Put Jehovah's name in a bad light" is too strong a tool for most, but not all. We all rememebr the publishers a few years back who went against the elders and went to the police and were promptly df'd.
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  JeffT

  James, the thing is, the elders involvement may not need to get to THIS trial. If the investigation finds some sort of coverup, particularly of child porn, they may be screwed all on their own.
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  james_woods

  James, the thing is, the elders involvement may not need to get to THIS trial. If the investigation finds some sort of coverup, particularly of child porn, they may be screwed all on their own.

  Possibly - but I still think it is a long shot. Like someone else said - it is entirely possible that they only knew about the weird car theft and disappearance. And the prosecuting attorney might not have the stomach to charge them even if they did cover up knowledge of the kiddie porn. A civil case could indeed nail them to the outhouse door, but from what all the family is saying to the media this seems very unlikely. For sure, it would be of great interest to the ex-JW community to know if the elders were aware of this and covered it up.
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  undercover

  Worst case scenerio for the WTS, or more aptly put, the local elders:

  IF, IF, they knew that Holt had viewed or owned child porn (which I doubt. If they had known that, they probably would have taken measures to DF him.) then those local elders could face charges, IF, again, IF, state law requires reporting of such a crime. Too many IFs. And even then, the WTS would distance themselves from those elders, because they did not follow procedure and call legal to get proper instructions. Those local elders would be left to swing on their own. So, the elders get the shaft and face charges, the WTS walks off clean.

  But it ain't gonna happen. This is too much of an open and shut case for prosecuters. They don't need to muddy up the waters with conspiracy theories of how church leaders covered up Holt's being unstable and possibly dangerous.

  Oregon does have the death penalty and the young Mr. Holt is the prime candidate for recieving that sentence. Physical evidence, admission of the crime. The only defense he'll have is temporary insanity, which I'm sure his legal team will use, just to keep him for getting the death penalty.

  Forget civil trials. From the family's responses so far, it is pretty clear that they are heavily indoctrinated. They would never consider that the WTS, or local elders, have any culpability in the matter. This was an attack from Satan, in the form of a twisted, demonized ex-member of their congregation. And quite frankly, I don't really think the elders are culpable either. Even if they knew he viewed/owned porn, even more sadistic foms of it, there's no way to know that he would go and kill. Elders can't be like thought police, or oracles that can see the future, or see future crimes. Judicial committee meetings aren't like Minority Report.
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  james_woods

  A very reasonable post, Undercover - and exactly in line with my own thinking on this.

  Oregon does have the death penalty and the young Mr. Holt is the prime candidate for recieving that sentence. Physical evidence, admission of the crime. The only defense he'll have is temporary insanity, which I'm sure his legal team will use, just to keep him for getting the death penalty.

  Interesting - I had assumed they had banned the death penalty like California.

  I cannot help confessing that I hope this piece of trash gets the needle.
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  ziddina

  "Absolutely - and the great local JW public relations sunshine pump has Watchtower Legal's fingerprints all over it." James Woods

  Hah!

  Great phrase - that's exactly what I was wondering about, when I heard how much effort had gone into this situation...

  I'm not clear on all the details currently available, but IF the local Jehovah's Witnesses did indeed "bird-dog" the location of the body to the police, that is a VERY strange situation. I hope that the police determine HOW IN THE WORLD the local JWs knew so much about where the body was likely to be found...

  IF the local congregation members did indeed initially find clues to the location of the body...
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  DATA-DOG

  I knew someone who was making porno's that were leaked to children in several congregations. They were not DF'd. Then there is the guy in Florida who murdered people and became a Dub. The Elders basically said " We are not the police, work on the fruitage of the spirit ". So WHY would anyone think that Jonathan Holt would be promptly Df'd for child porn? It all depends on the BOE, and if they believed he was truly repentant. Hopefully we will learn the real story, but i see no reason to assume the BOE didn't know about the porn. Does viewing child porn constitute involvement in " abuse " of children under the law? You are supporting an industry that abuses children after all. So IF that is true and Oregon requires ministers to report suspected or actual abuse of children then perhaps the BOE would be liable in some way. Had they gone to the police perhaps some children being victimized could have been saved. There are a lot of IFs. I am no lawyer, just wondering....