Maybe this is a way to get a Witness to use CRITICAL THINKING ?

raymond frantz

I have been trying recently different ways to get fellow Witnesses to use their thinking faculties ,one that seems to work is the following :

"Would you believe in the Trinity if the Governing Body told you to ? "

No!

"Why ? "

Because it is not in the Bible

"Who is the final authority then ,the Bible or the Governing Body?"

The Bible

"If the doctrine of Trinity is your drawing the line ,would you accept that, for others this line could be a different doctrine?"

THAT WAY OF APPROACH SEEMS TO WORK EVERYTIME ,what do you think?

A JW will not agree with you eventhough it's a good point, but I could see how that may plant a seed!!! For me, I just pushed out all the negative for so many years, that if my life hadn't taken some unexpected turns, I may never have woken up.

And when I started to awaken, there were more things that I had completely blocked out of my mind and were only reminded of them by reading a lot of it on the internet.

raymond frantz

I'm only trying to plant a seed ,I really feel for all these brothers and sisters being abused spiritually .I think we are at a point where time is on our side .THis is not another 1975, this time things are different .I've seen people stepping down or being disfellowshiped the last year more than I have ever since in my life as a Witness

rip van winkle

I haven't had that experience RF. Some congs are thriving. Ok- maybe thriving is not the right word- I just don't know of many that have stepped down. But, when I read experiences of others here talking about stepping down, I'm glad that so many are waking up!!!

Indian Larry

I think that is an excellent point. I will be using it. Thanks!

Cold Steel

Your logic in this situation is impaired.

A JW might answer that the GB wouldn't teach the Trinity because it wasn't in the Bible. It would be like asking an Evangelical, "If Jesus told you to believe in Santa Claus, would you?" No! Why? Because it defies reality. And you can carry it on from there. If Santa Claus is the line one draws then where might other lines be drawn? Transubstantiation? People who aren't a member of their religion going to hell?

I know a Pentacostal who doesn't believe there's life on other worlds. She said that it would nullify Christ's atonement. How she arrives at that non sequitur is beyond me. Apparently she thinks God created the Universe to give the earth light at night. All those galaxies, each with billions of stars -- some that are completely invisible -- all made to give man something to look at in the night sky. The trillions of stars out there? Here today, gone tomorrow. It's child's play for God! No problem.

Let's say the governing board is who they think they are and Jehovah is behind them a hundred percent. Creating an "if" statement wouldn't work and shouldn't work. We should all get behind them and sustain them as God's servants. The problem is, they have no credentials. Have they spoken to God face to face, like Moses? No. Have they been chosen of Jesus as the ancient apostles were and have they been on a mount of transfiguration? No. Well, how can we tell they've been commissioned by God? Herbert W. Armstrong thought he had been called of God and he believed in many of the doctrines that JWs believe...only he wasn't on a first name basis with God. Oh, and Ellen G. White thought she was chosen of God and even had some visions of Peter and the Pearly Gates. And God told her he never changed the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday, and she challenged scholars to show her chapter and verse where he made that change. Then there were all those Catholic children who had brunch with the Holy Mother. She wasn't interested in the Sabbath, but she had some warnings for the Popes. And so it goes. Like they say on The Sapranos, "Who ya gonna believe, eh?"

Me? I want credentials.

raymond frantz

Cold Steel ,I couldn't agree more .Asking for credentials is the number one obvious thing to ask ,but I find this approach more confrontentional and something I use when everything fails .My approach is based on the assumption that most Witnesses have that if there is a change in doctrine is not a problem since the Governing Body said it.Also I use my argument as a way to refute the famous loyalty question that frames someone as an apostate :" Do you belive that Jehovah guides the Governing Body?" .It is based on the idea of who is the final authority and having used it twice with "sleeping " Witnesses ,it seems to work .

smiddy

Jehovah`s Witnesses don`t beleive the Bible ! Their 130 year history is absolute proof of that . They beleive in the INTERPRETATION of the bible, as the current Watchtower feeds them .

How else can you explain their WELL OVER 100 + changes ,adjustments , new light , refinements , clearer understanding , etc.etc. of their ever changing veiw of any particular scripture .

I think I would be on very safe ground to say that the Roman Catholic Church has never made anywhere near the changes made by Jehovah`s Witnesses in their 2000 year existance .

smiddy

Phizzy

RF, I think it sounds like a good technique to try, even if we do not lead them very far along the path of using Critical Thinking skills, at least you have got them away from just accepting something as being 100% O.K 'coz the GB says it.

In the future they will begin to examine "Noo Lite" instead of just swallowing it, hopefully. I definately think it is worth a try.

Fernando

Hey raymond frantz!

Love it!

One of the best I've come accross.

Of course it still depends on the person, since "there are none so blind as those who will not see".

Maybe this is a way to get a Witness to use CRITICAL THINKING ?

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