How can anyone really be a 100% confident atheist given the paranormal and occult?

by yadda yadda 2 78 Replies latest jw friends

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  yadda yadda 2

  I don't believe the Bible is inerrant nor do I hold a 'Christian worldview' any longer as my profile details say (which I am unable to update on my profile), but I just can't see how anyone can be absolutely 100% confident there is nothing out there we can call a 'God' or spirit creature in the face of endless first-hand accounts of paranormal and occult experiences that felt as 'real' to the person who experienced them as anything else in their lives.

  There are untold reports of ghosts, faith-healing, ouija boards, seances, spirit mediums, stigmata, mystical born-again experiences, speaking in tongues, and then there's hypnotism, UFO sightings, poltergeists, remote viewing, etc, etc.

  Ok, so its mostly only anecdotal evidence, but the amount of it is so overwhelming it is practically corroborating evidence. In the face of all this, how can anyone categorically assert that there is nothing out there that is beyond ourselves that we might call a 'God' or spirit creature?

  All the atheist refutations and 'debunking' of these things seem very unconvincing, mostly along the lines of "its just a projection of our mind" or "its never been proven in a laboratory so I refuse to believe it" or "science just hasn't explained it yet". These excuses don't cut it, these experiences are often as real as anything to those who have experienced them, and there has been some verfiable scientific testing to support their reality (eg, a famous faith-healer's miracles were once tested rigorously and the scientist could not deny it was really happening, same with remote viewing) but without offering any rational explanation.

  Sure, none of this proves the existence of a god or intelligent spirit beings, but to my mind it proves there is something weird and inexplicable going on that is well beyond the realm of science to currently explain, and hence it gives us a reason to suspend our total denial of the existence of a 'god' or similar. I cannot understand how anyone, in view of all the abundence of the paranormal, etc, can categorically dismiss the possiblity of a spirit realm or the existence of some greater intellience out there that we might regard as a god if it revealed itself directly to us. The possiblity has to remain open, surely?

  From the X files.
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  Aussie Oz

  just dont cut it...

  nor does the bible or any other so called proof of all the above things either...

  sometimes we just have to learn to say "IT DOES NOT MATTER''.

  Oz
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  grumblecakes

  iwas think8g this same thing, just too afraid too ask..
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  cofty

  there has been some verifiable scientific testing to support their reality

  This is factually incorrect.

  If there was any validity to the supernatural we would be drowning in evidence. All we have is anecdotes which have a sample size of precisely 1.

  The James Randi Educational Foundation has a $1m prize up for grabs for anybody who can show evidence of the supernatural - it remains unclaimed.
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  shepherd

  As Smartphone use increases, so occult and unexplained incidents decrease. Either spirits are scared of cameras or it was always BS from the beginning. My bet is on total BS!
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  jws

  Are you referring to Ghost Hunters and shows like that? Since those shows cropped up, there seems to be a lot more focus on the paranormal. People tell me all the time, have you seen what they caught on tape? To me, it seems to be the source of a lot of renewed belief. Got to remember they air on the SyFy channel. SyFy is a fancy way of saying "Sci Fi" which is short for Science FICTION.

  Even ex members talk (or a least hint strongly, due to threat of lawsuit) that things in that show are faked.

  So is that where this so-called "evidence" is coming from? A TV show made for entertainment purposes?

  And also remember that the Bible is antecdotal evidence of miracles. Do we believe they all happened? Did God take 5 days to create things on the earth, but created the billions and billions of stars and planets in one?

  There are shows that talk about the whole setting, the lights, the music, the decorations, etc., at a healing church that can just about hypnotize people. And the healings don't last. I'm sure in other cultures where the people want to believe, they can be made to believe supernatual things have happened.
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  ziddina

  Ah...

  I was thinking about this recently, and IF "ghosts" exist, that would tend to DISprove the "existence of god", because the presence of ghosts would be an uncomfortable anomaly in a world where everyone either went to "heaven", went to "purgatory", went into "limbo", or went to "hell"... [I used the Catholic model, because they had more 'options'...]

  No wonder so many organized Christian religions are touchy on the subjects of ghosts, ouija boards, psychics, and so on - these experiences DON'T fit neatly into their concept of a "spiritually-ordered" universe...

  Which would tend to negate their concept of that Johnny-come-lately Middle-Eastern nomadic males' volcano "god"...
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  jws

  I was thinking about this recently, and IF "ghosts" exist, that would tend to DISprove the "existence of god", because the presence of ghosts would be an uncomfortable anomaly in a world where everyone either went to "heaven", went to "purgatory", went into "limbo", or went to "hell"... [I used the Catholic model, because they had more 'options'...]

  Yes, IF (big IF) ghosts did exist, it might not disprove the existence of God. Just many Christian versions of the hereafter. And even with that, we are fed the myth about them not going into the white light because they have unfinished business or something.

  Which then begs other questions? If spirits don't go to some other place and remain, does that mean it's a choice? Or just an inefficient collection method that doesn't manage to capture everyone? If it's a choice and I knew I was a bad person, destined for hell, wouldn't I always choose not to go? Hell should be empty then, devil with nothing to do. Aha! So that's why he's up here stirring up trouble.

  Never saw a ghost. Never had anything strange happen that wasn't explainable. Noise in the house? Something fell that was about to anyway. Gravity eventually took it. Or just changes in the pressure of the house due to weather make the house creak. Or the air conditioner turning on. Saw something out of the corner of my eye? Repeating the movement shows me it was just my eye catching a reflection.

  Obviously it is more common in certain cultures. Who all happen to be raised believing in such things. There seems to be a strong correlation between believing in such things and seeing them as well as not believing in them and not seeing them.
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  Nambo

  Dont let the sceptics sway you Yadda, as with most people and thier world views, they do not want such to be compromised and so will allways resist even considering any conflicting viewpoints.

  Cofty,s reasoning for instance, is this a proof? in which case maybe he doesnt believe in the Holocaust either as there remains unclaimed a huge monetary prize for anyone who can produce evidence of even a single body being buried at Treblinka where it is claimed 870,000 people were murdered and buried there by the Nazis.

  I belive similar monetray offerings or available for proving 911 was as we are told.

  I work at the Houses of Parliament Yadda, if you ever come visit, I will tell you a few evidences to back up your world view, I personally have seen one, smelt another and had £1000 worth of damage done to my car by another that I managed to upset.

  I work with people who have been physically accousted by these entities, others who have run away from big buck contracts on seeing figures walking out of walls. etc etc.

  Re Ziddinas point, I dont think these disprove the existance of God, rather they disprove the teachings of man made religions like the Catolick church who along with the rest of us dont know the half of it.

  My most compelling experience I wouldnt dare share on this board, though I have told one of the posters who I met in person, and she probably thought I was mad.
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  jgnat

  Not an athiest here, but a healthy skeptic. The whole occult business is short in the quality of evidence department.