Climbing the corporate ladder at congregations

master chief

At the hall i used to go to started to notice certain men volunteering all the time to do talks and helping others with needs in the hall. Though there was nothing wrong with that i started to become suspicious because they were not like that previously.Then some months later these men became elders and some became ministerial servants ,and guess what did they volunteer for talks as much maybe be as helpful as much well i will leave you to guess that.So the question is why such a change of heart after the promotion,what were they really after did they want to fit in or want authority over others.

ashitaka

I heard the same thing, too, MC. My father was told this. When they pressured him to quit after a fault of mine some decade ago, he was depressed. He had worked for so long to become a MS.

Seems silly now, though, those worthless titles. My father worked so hard to become one, and in the end, it brought him no spiritual enlightenment, just work. Always thought it was a waste of time to perform his 'privilidges'.

What a word for extra, meaningless work.

ashi

VioletAnai

Reputation and service is so important to them...you'd think he'd keep up his pretense as most are bound to get suspicious and think the same way!!!!!!!!

You've been a BAD boy, go to MY room

Dutchie

Young men in the congregations are urged to "reach out" for eldership. You do this by spending a lot of time in field service and be of great assistance in the kingdom hall, where the brothers can see you and remark on how spiritually mature you are. Once you have achieved your goal of being an elder, why stress yourself out anymore? You got the position you wanted and now you get to judge who is spiritually mature or not.

Beck_Melbourne

Actually...my ex was an elder...and he was asked to step down when I played up. But when he was doing his elder stuff...he was always very busy. They are meant to take the lead in just about everything...and that leaves them very little time to get involved in other things a publisher can do. It also gave publishers the opportunity to 'reach out'...and usually it would be noticed by other elders. For example, my ex being the Theocratic School Overseer used to regularly call on certain publishers to do 'fill in' talks...when someone who had been assigned a talk didn't show up. He knew exactly who to call on...and it was never another elder, as usually all the elders were caught up doing other things. That was my observation anyway.

Beck

ashitaka

Beck,

you're right about the 'fill-in' talk thing. It was always my friend who volunteered, and he was the pet of the congregation. I did it once or twice, and people groveled at my feet for doing it. I could only think of how silly the whole compulsory talk-thing was.

If a person didn't show up, don't give the talk. There was certainly nothing important being distributed during those dry, completly cloned talks that always BREATHED that lack of preparation with a subtle mix of apathy.

ashi

Amazing

Master:

"At the hall i used to go to started to notice certain men volunteering all the time to do talks and helping others with needs in the hall. Though there was nothing wrong with that i started to become suspicious because they were not like that previously."

Likely some did this to gain approval, so that they would be viewed as MS or Elder material. They may have been instructed to volunteer as a way to demonstrate they were 'reaching out.' Some also like to give talks, and may enjoy the opportunities to do something they enjoy. If they were not like that previously, then maybe talks in the TMS gave them new confidence in public speaking, and this resulted in wanting more of the same.

"Then some months later these men became elders and some became ministerial servants, and guess what did they volunteer for talks as much maybe be as helpful as much well i will leave you to guess that."

Some may have slowed down because they acheived the goal of being an MS or Elder. Some may have slowed down because they felt that others would reach out, and left the opportunities open, and most, I believe, slow down because they get tired, over-burdened, and start looking for ways to get some breathing space.

"So the question is why such a change of heart after the promotion, what were they really after did they want to fit in or want authority over others."

I don't think 'authority over others' is the usual goal. I think they slow down for the reasons I noted above. Some don't slow down because they like what they do ... also, once an Elder, many of these are assigned Public Talks around the Circuit, and just get to a point where they want to do other things ... and volunteering is not as essential anymore.

Following Bible principles, we will avoid trying to live - or demand others to live - by an extensive and rigid set of dos and don'ts that go beyond the teachings of the Bible. The Watchtower, 4-15-02, pg 22, pp 15

JT

here is a nice REPOST

of just a few of the Positions, labels, titles and etc you can have being a jw:

@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

The Watchtower Classless

[ HOURGLASS2 OUTPOST ] [ Follow Ups ] [ Post Followup ] [ FAQ ]

Posted by Hahahahahahahah [FOCUS] on January 11, 2001 at 06:25:57 {Ncsrh3dctcB25cUDo34sUGayJfv8dw}:
JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES' List: 100+ Ranks, 270+ Classes - ROTFL
Jehovah's Witnesses "Classless/Rankless" Society NEW LIGHT!

Jehovah's Witnesses refer to the Catholic Church (hundreds of times in WT
official publications) as being the "GREAT WHORE OF BABYLON", to all other
Christian churches as the "GREAT WHORE'S HARLOT daughters", and to all
religion besides their own insane cult as "SATANIC" and "SPIRITUAL
PORNOGRAPHY"... and "SPIRITUAL FORNICATION".
One attack they repeatedly make against other beliefs is that they have a
Rank and Class System (a clergy/laity). The Watchtower first did this in
"Another prominent mark of the beast .. is the honoring of the special
class, the clergy, with special honors and titles. They are known as Revs.,
Divines, etc., but Jesus, the divine, said: 'Ye call me Lord and Master,
and ye say well, for so I am.' 'Be not ye called Rabbi, neither be ye
called Masters, for one is your Master, even Christ, and all ye are
brethren (Matt. 23:8). These titles are assumptions fashioned after those
of Papacy." {Watchtower Jan 1880, p6-7} and they have NEVER stopped this
attack since. In the light of what follows, this is sheer hypocrisy...

PIG-PECKING RANK ORDER OF JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES (Reference:'Animal Farm')
01 Less Senile Man Who 'Specially Advises' The President of the WTBTS
02 The President of the Watchtower Society of Jehovah's Witnesses
03 Jehovah God [As WTBTS President interprets/'explains' all... ;-) ]
04 Charles Taze Russell, occasionally The Faithful & Discreet Slave
05 Michael=Jesus, Satan [Jesus/Satan oddly confusable in WTBTS literature]
06 Other Governing Body Member (White)
07 Other more submissive Archangel (less attitude)
08 Writing Staff Member
09 Common or Garden Angel/Spirit Creature
10 Other Committee head
11 Higher-Up Biblical Prophet (e.g. "Moses" Class)
12 Other Governing Body Member (Black or servile)
13 Prominent Bethelite
14 Biblical Prophet (e.g. "Ezekiel" Class)
15 Other Committee Member
16 Male Biblical "Honorable Mention" (e.g. "David" Class)
17 Branch Overseer
18 District Overseer
19 Circuit Overseer
20 City Overseer
21 Presiding Overseer
22 Elder with influence
23 Common or Garden Bethelite
24 Male Anointed One (active) ("Anointed Remnant" Class)
25 Common or garden Elder
26 Ministerial Servant
27 Male Special Pioneer
28 Male Pioneer
29 Male Auxiliary Pioneer
30 Male Anointed One (less active)
31 Male Alleged Anointed One
32 Male Dead Anointed One
33 Male Regular Publisher (but if non-JW spouse, lower)
34 Male Irregular Publisher (but if non-JW spouse, lower)
35 Male Inactive Publisher (but if non-JW spouse, lower)
36 Male Dead Publisher
37 Female Biblical "Honorable Mention" (Ruth Class, HIGHEST for a Female)
38 Female Anointed One (active)
39 Female Anointed One (less active)
40 Female Alleged Anointed One
41 Female Dead Anointed One
42 Female Special Pioneer
43 Female Pioneer
44 Female Auxiliary Pioneer
45 Female Regular Publisher (but if non-JW spouse, lower)
46 Female Irregular Publisher (but if non-JW spouse, lower)
47 Female Inactive Publisher (but if non-JW spouse, lower)
48 Female Dead Publisher
49 jW with suspected "worldly leanings" (or who forgets to dress per code)
50 jW with at least one DF/DA relative (if they misbehave, becomes a C-59)
51 Marked jW
52 Reproved jW
53 Male unbaptized Associate
54 Female unbaptized Associate
55 Male child of jW (sub-Class rank depends on Congregational Rank of Pop)
56 Female child of jW (sub-Class rank depends on Rank of Pater)
57 Male child of unbaptized Associate
58 Female child of unbaptized Associate; Dead unbaptized associate/family
59 "Spiritually Weak" jW; Dead non-jW who never heard the message; Hitler
60 jW known to have "Apostate Leanings", Other Dead;Mother Teresa (dogmeat)
61 Male householder starting a Bible Study
62 Female householder starting a Bible Study; any who paid for literature
63 Other Male adult (Catholics, Beardeds and Smokers at the bottom)
64 Other Submissive Female adult (ditto); Rapist [subject to Flicker Light]
65 Other Male Child
66 Idiot, Infidel or Lunatic
67 Other Female Child
68 Co-operative & submissive & clean non-jW Spouse of jW (Male higher)
69 One suspected of "running ahead of Jehovah" (never forgivable)
70 Co-operative & submissive non-jW Close Family of jW (Male much higher)
71 Non-human animals (snakes and bottom-feeding pond scum excepted)
72 Householder (either sex) who has politely said "not interested"
73 Householder (either sex) who has said "get lost"
74 Householder (either sex) who has offended (marked for early destruction)
75 Householder (either sex) who set household pet on jW (likewise)
76 Internet User or Child-Molester (unless Elder, in which case can be OK)
77 Unsubmissive Female; Demon (if different)
78 Unco-operative or unsubmissive or unclean non-jW Spouse of jW
79 Unco-operative or unsubmissive non-jW Family of jW
80 Formally Disassociated One (but see 88 below if applicable!)
81 Bottom-feeding Pond Scum
82 Informally Disassociated One
83 Serpent Class
84 Living Mass-Murderer; Trinitarian (if different)
85 Masturbator=Homosexual [same thing per WT 5/15/70 p315; WT 10/1/70 p604]
86 One said to be pending J.C. [J.C. is NOT Jesus Christ!] proceedings
87 Opposer who was never associated or baptized
88 jW who accepts Blood Transfusion (Bible-trained "conscious" notwithstanding]
89 Clergyman, Shaman, other Daughter Harlot
90 Opposer who had been associated (e.g. Hassan)
91 Pope, other Great Whore; George Orwell
92 "Temporarily" Disfellowshipped One (but see below)
93 Shunned One (yes, some pigs are less equal)
94 Member of "Swine" Class
95 Apostatized One (e.g. Watters-Penton-Reed)
96 Member of "Evil Slave" Type (e.g. Ray Franz)
97 One who Attempts to Tape-Record Judicial Committee proceedings
98 Demonized One (e.g. Feuerbacher-Bergman-Raines-Salter Class)
99 Wicked Demonized One (e.g., Farkel-Steinhaug-Kotwal-Hovland Class)
__ Viprous Concealed-Apostatical One (e.g. NAMES WITHHELD)

Notes:
(a) Multiple "fits" (!) will occur. Use clearest/narrowest/higher number fit!
(b) All Ranked 60-100 will be BLASTED APART at Armageddon SOON by JEHOVAH!!
(c) All in 60-100 already dead will NEVER get a chance to redeem themselves.
(d) Everything subject to retrospective change without any prior warning!
(e) However belief of truth not yet seen to be truth puts you in Rank #69.
(f) Sub-ranks are numerous but not separately numbered. Use imagination!
(g) To find lots of support for this classification, click on links here:
http://www.freeminds.org/history/part1.htm
http://www1.tip.nl/~t661020/wtcitaten/part1.htm
http://www.3dom.freeserve.co.uk/main.htm
http://www.concordance.com/watchtower.htm
All quotes from the Jehovah's Witnesses OWN OFFICIAL PUBLICATIONS!!!!!
Also, a brief scan of Watchtower Official literature reveals the following
THEOLOGICALLY-SIGNIFICANT "Classes" of people set out by just *ONE* of the
Watchtower's five Presidents (and that too, the search was only through 50%
of text output during his reign), plus 9 more recent ones...
UNLIKE THE ABOVE, this is *NOT* a spoof or joke. Every single Class has been
SPECIFICALLY and EXPLICITLY referred to at least ONCE in Watchtower literature
of the period.
270+ THEOLOGICALLY RELEVANT "CLASSES" OF HUMAN (SAY JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES)
DRAWN FROM SCAN OF HALF OF C.T.RUSSELL'S FINE SPIRITUAL FOOD AT THE A.T.
144,000 Class
Abel Class
Achan Class
Altar Class
Amaziah Class
Amos Class
Ancient Class
Anointed Class
Anointed Remnant Class
Antagonistic Class
Apostle Class
Arisen Class
Aryan Class
Beloved Class
Betrothed Class
Bitter Class
Blemished Class
Body Class
Bride Class
Bridegroom Class
Brier Class
Brother Class
Caleb Class
Camp Class
Carnal-Minded Babes In Christ Class
Chaff Class
Changers Class
Chief Class
Child Of God Class
Childlike Class
Chosen Class
Christ Class
Christiania Class
Church Class
Churchianity Class
Composite Class
Conqueror Class
Consecrated Class
Cream Class
Created Class
Creditor Class
Critic Class
Cultured Class
Dangerous Class
Darkened Class
David Class
Dead Class
Debtor Class
Deceived Class
Dependent Class
Depraved Class
Desirable Class
Dictator Class
Dignified Class
Disciple Class
Disfavored Class
Dishonorable Class
Dispensable Class
Disreputable Class
Dog Class
Eagle Class
Earthly Class
Elder Class
Elect Bride Class
Elect Class
Elijah Class
Elijah-John-The-Baptist Class
Elijah-Like Class
Elisha Class
Enthroned Class
Envious Class
Esau Class
Esther Class
Eunuch Class
Evil Slave Class
Exalted Class
Ezekiel Class
Faith Class
Faithful And Discreet Servant Class
Faithful And Discreet Slave Class
Faithful And Discreet Steward Class
Faithful And Wise Servant Class
Faithful And Wise Steward Class
Faithful Class
Favorable Class
Favored Class
Feet Class
Fighting Class
First Class
First-Born Class
Firstfruit Class
Flock Class
Foolish Virgin Class
Foreknown Class
Fourth Class
Glorified Class
Glorious Class
Goat Class
Goats Class
Gold Class
Governing Class
Great Class
Great Company Class
Great Crowd Class
Great Multitude Class
Great Restitution Class
Great Teacher Class
Groom Class
Ground Class
Harvest Class
Heavenly Class
High Angel Class
Higher Class
Hireling Class
His Bride Class
His Jewel Class
Holier Class
Holiness Class
Honored Class
Hopeless Class
Humble Class
Hypocrite Class
Improper Class
Infant Class
Inspired Class
Intractable Class
Isaac Class
Ishmael Class
Israel Class
Jacob Class
Jeremiah Class
Jerusalem Class
Jew Class
Jewel Class
Job Class
John Class
Joint-Heir Class
Jonadab Class
Jonathan Class
Joshua Class
Judas Class
Judge Class
Justified Class
King Class
Kingdom Class
Kingly Class
Laity Class
Lapsing Class
Large Class
Lazarus Class
Levite Class
Levitical Class
Little Class
Lord Class
Lowest Class
Loyal Class
Lunatic Class
Man Of Lawlessness Class
Man Of Perdition Class
Man Of The True God Class
Many Class
Mediator Class
Messiah Class
Messianic Class
Millennial Age Class
Minor Class
Mordecai Class
Mordecai-Esther Class
Moses Class
My Bride Class
Mystery Class
Naomi Class
Needy Class
Neglected Class
Nicodemus Class
Nominal Class
Non-Elect Class
Numerous Class
Obedient Class
Obscure Class
Official Class
Opposite Class
Opposition Class
Ostracized Class
Other Sheep Class
Outcast Class
Overcomer Class
Overcoming Class
Parent Class
Peculiar Class
Penitent Class
Permanent Class
Peter Class
Pharisaical Class
Pharisee Class
Preacher's Class
Preaching Class
Priest Class
Priesthood Class
Priestly Class
Principal Class
Prodigal Class
Prophet Class
"Prophet" Class
Prophetic Class
Prophet-like Class
Putty Class
Reigning Class
Religious Class
Remnant Class
Reproached Bullock Class
Reputable Class
Resident Class
Restitution Class
Royal Class
Running Class
Ruth Class
Ruth-Naomi Class
Sadducees Class
Saint Class
Saintly Class
Salt Class
Samaritan Class
Sanctified Class
Sanctuary Class
Saul Class
Scapegoat Class
Sea Class
Seashore Class
Second Class
Second Company Class
Second Death Class
Secondary Class
Seed Class
Seeking Class
Select Class
Separate Class
Servant Class
Sheep Class
Silver Class
Simon Magus Class
Sinner Class
Sister Class
Slave Class
Son Of Heaven Class
Special Class
Specific Class
Spirit-Begotten Class
Spiritual Class
Splendid Class
Spurious Class
Steward Class
Submerged Class
Subordinate Class
Suitable Class
Superior Class
Swine Class (from "posthumous" work)
Tare Class
Tarried Class
Temple Class
'Thee' Class
Third Class
Tribulation Class
True Bride Class
True Wheat Class
Unfaithful Class
Unprincipled Class
Unsaved Non-Elect Infant Class
Unsuitable Class
'Us' Class
Vile Class
Viper Class
Virgin Class
Watchman Class
Wheat Class
Wicked Class
Winnowing Class
Wise Virgin Class
Worldly Class
Worst Class
Worthies Class
Zealous Class
Zerubbabel Class
Zionistic Class

Well, at least no "God Class" or "Jehovah Class" (yet - but maybe
tomorrow). How incredibly legalistic and complex!! Of course, some of the
above are the same (theocratic terminology is trendy and changes - but very
many are different - and with the jWs, a tiny difference can be enough to
provoke LIFELONG SHUNNING if you dispute it). List makes FANTASTIC READING!
You only *THOUGHT* you knew how what Jehovah's Witnesses believe(d)!!
How telling this is in the light of the Jehovah's Witnesses' boast
(fittingly, on page 666 of their Nov 1 1956 Watchtower): "Who controls the
organization, who directs it? Who is head? A Man? A group of men? A Clergy
class? A pope? A hierarchy? Council? No, none of these. How is this
possible? In any organisation is it not necessary that there be a directing
head or policy-making part that controls or guides the organisation? Yes!..
Is the living God, Jehovah, the theocratic Christian organisation? Yes!".
Note therefore all the madness and mistakes and misery and blood on the
hands of the Watchtower are all .. God's fault, in their own words..

Here is something that appeared in Usenet (news:alt.religion.jehovahs-witn)
a year ago, where my learned friend the PB metes out "justice":-

K. Hansen wrote...
>Prominent Bethelite skrev:
>> Jehovah's Witnesses "Classless World"...
>> Here is the Pig-Ranking-List for the Jehovah's Witnesses
>> 50. One suspected of "running ahead of Jehovah"
>> 51. Non-jW Close Family of jW
>> 52. Non-human animals (snakes and bottom-feeding pond scum excepted)
>Hey! I'm right there! #51 Thats not that bad is it?
I am afraid you are a bit naive, Mr Hansen... ;-) (says I from #100) ;-))
By voluntarily responding to such a post, you have changed your ranking!
So while you might have been classified as jW-Rank #70 (like Old Rank #51,
now New Light) (if properly co-operative and submissive, no bad habits, and
quiet/deferential or absent when jWs in house) or Rank #79 (residue), your
actions have shown to the True Christian what you really are. An Opposer.
So, your Rank falls to #87 "Opposer who was never associated" I conclude,
which is not so impressive. Be careful of your response, for Rank #95 now
beckons you swiftly! If you have ever thought "What a Load of Rubbish is
this Jehovah's Witnesses Stuff" or "What kind of Moron would ever join
them" you are almost there already at Rank #97 ("Demonized One") even if
never a jW. If you require restitution, get certificated as an "Idiot or
Lunatic" (some jW Psychiatrist - a rare beast that - could help?) and your
Rank becomes improved to Rank #67. Careful consideration of scriptural
evidence just may suggest that if you become a rapist you will go a little
better to Rank #64 (same as "Submissive female", which two with typical
excellent Watchtower logic might well be classified identically - "let
punishment fit the crime"; also ELEVEN Watchtower flip-flops on "if she
does not physically fight a rapist is she not also a fornicater?" - see the
weblinks for proof) but there can be other consequences.
If you want to survive Armageddon, you must be at least in Rank #59. Sorry.
It doesn't matter if you are a 5 year old kid (Rank #65/67). Jehovah God is
COMING TO GET YOU (and your only chance is to die before Armageddon (in
some cases will do) or to QUICKLY CONVERT AND BECOME A JEHOVAH'S WITNESS!!)
>LOL
You will laugh on the other side of your face soon, Mr Hansen, say the jWs.
Let me tell you what will happen to those in Ranks 60-100 (i.e. ~ "Swine
Class") when Armageddon strikes TOMORROW (always its tomorrow with them):-
---------------------------------------------------------------
"they shall look in amazement one at another; their faces shall be faces of
flame .. Soul-chilling terror will spread through the masses or people so
that they will lose control of themselves; they will begin killing one
another .. On that say a great panic from the LORD (Jehovah) shall fall on
them .. every man's sword shall be against his brother .. But their selfish
fight to live will be all in vain. Those who escape being killed by their
neighbors will be destroyed by God's heavenly armies .. angels will smite
all the opposers of God's kingdom and his kingdom Witnesses with a terrible
destruction. A flesh-eating plague will destroy many. Says Jehovah: Their
flesh shall rot while they are still on their feet, their eyes shall rot in
their sockets, and their tongues shall rot in their mouths .. Eaten up will
be the tongues of those who scoffed and laughed at the warning of
Armageddon! Eaten up will be the eyes of those who refused to see the sign
of the 'time of the end'! Eaten up will be the flesh of those who would not
learn that the living and true God is named Jehovah! Eaten up while they
stand on their feet! Where can people hide from this destruction coming
from God? Nowhere!.. Not one of them shall escape.. Question 26. What kind
of plague will Jehovah bring upon those who fight against his people?"
{From Paradise Lost to Paradise Regained, 1958, p208-9 jW BOOK FOR KIDS!!}
-------------------------------------------------------------
The Watchtower Society and the Creed of the Jehovah's Witnesses is a CHEAT,
a BLASPHEMOUS INSULT, a SHAM, a FILTHY LIE, a DECEITFUL TRICK, a SCANDAL, a
FRAUD, a DISGRACE, an ABOMINATION and a DAMNED OUTRAGE from start to finish.
--
Focus
(Hail To The Chief! Class)

Follow Ups:

Post a Followup
Name:
E-Mail:
Subject: *The Watchtower Classless
Comments:

Optional Link URL:
Link Title:
Optional Image URL:

[ Follow Ups ] [ Post Followup ] [ HOURGLASS2 OUTPOST ] [ FAQ ]

cornish

Before my father became an elder here are some of the reasons he told me he wanted tobe one:-

You get to know things you wouldnt otherwise know
Thay cant talk about you or your family at an elders meeting without you knowing about it.
You get more respect.
You get invited out a lot more.
You have more power to influence decisions.

DakotaRed

By and large, I feel it is a power trip for most. They claim to be servants of the congregation, but nothing could be further from the truth. I was encouraged to seek out more "privileges," but didn't stick around long enough.

The elder that caused my final rift with the dubs even commented to me that since I was a fairly forceful person, meaning I stick to my guns, I would make a great asset on "his team." His team?

Like I said, it is all a power trip. Little Hitlers controlling the masses and not having to answer to another man.

If God's Spirit is filling a Kingdom Hall, how is it that Satan can manuever the ones within that Kingdom Hall at the same time?

Climbing the corporate ladder at congregations

Share this