Need advice before I paint myself into a corner

by RedhorseWoman 9 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  RedhorseWoman

  Okay, here goes once again.....and I hope to Bob that THIS forum doesn't bite the dust the way Kent's did. Sorry, Kent. LOL

  A couple of months ago, I went to Classmates.com and noticed the name of a JW with whom I had gone to High School. I was looking for the few old worldy friends I had made while in school (and being a good JW at the time, there were few, indeed).

  I was surprised to see her name and email there, since it seemed that she would be soliciting contact from worldy people by doing so, so I thought that perhaps she had also become inactive and I wrote to her. She was always a nice person, and I thought it would be good to get in contact with her.

  I heard back from her after a few days, and she was quite glad to hear from me. In her email, she asked what congregation I was going to, and mentioned several other Witness-type things.

  I responded that I was inactive, and then went on to discuss general things. I didn't hear back for quite awhile, so I wrote once more and asked her if she was shunning me because of my inactivity.

  Her response was immediate and apologetic....so far, so good, I thought. We had several friendly emails, talking about general things and catching up on who was where, and so forth. Then she wrote stating that I should try to "get back to Jehovah", to which I replied that I had never left my belief in God, but only attendance at the Hall.

  She mentioned the closeness of the "end", and I asked her what she thought about the change in the generation doctrine. Her response was a cut and paste of the article wherein the change was brought out, but she never answered my question about what she thought about it and why she thought they had changed it....which is pretty typical for JWs.....thinking about the doctrinal changes is not high on their list of priorities.

  I've stayed away from any really controversial topics so far, since I don't want to spook her, and I certainly don't want her reporting things to the elders so that they would feel obliged to hunt me down for my "apostate" leanings. Being inactive gives me the opportunity to discuss things with JWs who are still active because they are technically committing no "crime" by associating with me.

  Just this week, she began upping the pressure, however, by inviting me to attend the Memorial with her, and asking me if I had considered studying again so that I could "build up my faith". I have made polite excuses for not being able to attend (I honestly don't think I could tolerate the whole thing), and I told her that, IMO, studying the WT literature has nothing to do with faith, but is rather just a way of getting information on a subject....faith was something else entirely.

  My problem is that I'd like to stay in touch with her and possibly....gradually.....present some truth about the "truth", but I don't want to say too much too soon and cause major repercussions.

  Any advice?
• 

  LB

  I can only give the advice I've been given. Go slow, very slow. But you'll probably find out that her friendship has strings attached to it. Isn't that sad? I'm sure you know it's true.

  Best of luck to you on this.

  
  Never Squat With Yer Spurs On
• 

  waiting

  Howdy Red,

  After TJ replied to you, and Kent kicked him out, TJ gave the click here. I followed it over to Kent's - and I think many people gave you good advice, including TJ.

  LB's "Go slow" seems to be the overriding thought. I've been in the predicament you speak of, and the same fear is there - the person could report you.

  Hope it goes well.

  waiting
• 

  DakotaRed

  I have to agree with LB. Sadly, it seems many times, thier "friendship" has a high cost. Be prepared to just continue with no contact as that is what may happen.

  Other than that, I would tell the friend that you value their friendship too much to let religious beliefs come between you. Mention that you really desire to stay friends, but wish to avoid the religious aspect. Then, you will see whether or not you even have a friend.

  If God's Spirit is filling a Kingdom Hall, how is it that Satan can manuever the ones within that Kingdom Hall at the same time?
• 

  RedhorseWoman

  Hi Waiting, unfortunately, Kent's board deep sixed before I could get back there to read any replies. I'm sure that there was a lot of good advice, but I never got to read it.....sooooooo......I'm reposting here and hoping that my board-killing abilities do NOT follow me here.
• 

  Reborn2002

  DakotaRed
  

  I would tell the friend that you value their friendship too much to let religious beliefs come between you.

  Unfortunately, for Jehovah's Witnesses, it does not work that way.

  If her friend is a genuinely loyal Dub, RedHorseWoman making any statement even generalizing the notion of" letting religious beliefs" come between them, would only serve to drive a deeper wedge between them, if not total and complete shunning. The reason being is that this statement sets off a red flag in a JW-mind, labeling her an Apostate or "bad association" (they sure do like to reference
  1 Corinthians 15:33 when it's convenient for them dont they?)

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• 

  Seven

  Hey RhW, I would let things slide with her until after the Memorial March Madness is over and she's not so gung ho. Email me if you wish. I'm dealing with a similar situation. After six months of emails, phone calls, lunch and shopping I'm getting the "studyin' again and memorial spiels. I'm backing off for now not wanting her to shut me out completely. She's just doing what she's conditioned to do. She said she'd call next month when she's home for a visit. We'll see.

  You know Red it's not often that you get an opportunity like this. Maybe in a few months you can ask her to find out about this UN thing you've heard about.

  seven
• 

  lauralisa

  Hi RHW,

  It is a wonderful thing, I've discovered, to have friendships that are not frought with a continual fear of saying, doing, or thinking of something that would "go over the line" relative to any "loyalty to the organization" issue. You could push the envelope with subjects like: is oral sex ok or not, whether so and so's unbelieving mate was a hottie, how can you blame her; should you use your "good" china for whatever? Do tupperware parties suck unless you get a lot of free junk, etc.

  When I was active, I had some friendships with other jw women that were quite deep and rewarding. With a few, I could talk about virtually anything that was on my mind, except anything that revealed lack of complete submission to the WTBTS, anything written in a current WT or Kirap! magazine or recently released publication.

  I lost one of the best friends I ever had due to this deplorable requirement. After knowing her for decades, keeping in constant touch even though we lived thousands of miles away from each other, sharing marriage, childbirth, divorces, pet deaths, etc, she checked out the religion that had ensnared me so completely and eventually got baptized.

  Once, when she was visiting, I picked her up at the train station. After squealing and hugging for a pathetic length of time, we get in the car to leave. She hauls this IMMENSE aromatic to the nth of amazing joint, and smiles, expecting me to say "wow, awesome..." like I normally would have.

  I'll tell you, I never had a more excruciating next few months as then. I had been trained to assume that association with someone who deviated from the three or four behavioral modes available to jw's was tantamount to being worthy of death. If one tolerated or mitigated such flagrant disregard for "theocratic order", one could bring death, disorder and utter mayhem to the entire congregation!!! The stories (ahem I mean "accounts") proving this very thing were rampant -and were amazingly similar to really censored Jerry Springer episodes.

  I believed (shaking head now) that if I let this event go without some kind of "intervention" (her getting "help"; she was obviously spiritually "weak") that she would like DIE at armagheddon, and I probably would too, and so would my kids, and ......then there's the entire congregation to be responsible for, or the entire district, country, etc.

  She is "out" now, and after all of the weird bs from back then, won't return my phone calls or mail or anything, despite my practically pleading with her. We had the kind of unconditional friendship that is rare; we'd seen each other in the most utterly base situations many times - but this grotesque loyalty condition/requirement/contest that the ephemeral borg has with anyone or anything that's precious to you is stronger than the deepest human bond that any two humans can develop or maintain.

  I just feel myself turning cold after reading about your situation; I imagine your conflicting desires: restore a good friendship, possibly assisting her "out", etc. vs. will she extend her (quite genuine I'm certain) warmth and acceptance of you ON THE eventual CONDITION that you like "come around" and then just bail, leaving you with betrayal and loss, when you refuse to revert to "control-think"...

  As for the other crap that's being discussed in this thread other than the apparent immediate issue for you, I don't even want to know, but I hope that you stay well and unscathed, and let us know what transpires.

  thanks, laura
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  seedy3

  Hi RedhorseWoman:

  I reciently also found a friend from my JW days on classmates.com. I e-mailed him and found out he is inactive, I have told him I am no longer associated with the Jduds, but I get the feeling he still has feeings that it is the truth. I broke it to him in one email about my research into history and my studies of religons. Then gave him examples like the 607bc bogus date and such, but never really got a response about it. I did get a response, but it was almost as if he didn't read that part of the email. I guess, I'm not sure how to approch him either on the idea of learing the truth about the truth.

  I guess, I'm kinda biding my time until it really comes up.

  Seedy
• 

  RedhorseWoman

  Thanks, everyone for the replies. You've all pretty much confirmed what I had felt I needed to do, which is avoid touchy subjects as much as possible. (sigh)

  Seven, I'll definitely email you. Maybe we can plan some strategy together for our equivalent situations.