Another point about "between the evenings"

by WontLeave 12 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • The Searcher
    The Searcher

    @ BobCat

    I totally agree with your thinking that all Christians are anointed with Holy Spirit - at their baptism.

    The results of my 'digging' are somewhat lengthy, but necessary to present the Scriptural proofs, rather than my own reasoning. Then others can base their judgements on what the Bible teaches.

    Anointed & Anointing

    The term 'anointed' occurs only 6 times in the Greek Scriptures. In all but one of the verses, they refer to Jesus. In the remaining verse, it applies to Christ's disciples. (2 Corinthians 1:21)

    The term 'anointing' occurs only 3 times in the Greek Scriptures. (1 John2:20,27) All three verses refer to the disciples of Christ.

    ".................we belong to Christ and he who has anointed us is God."

    "And YOU have an anointing from the holy one; all of YOU have knowledge";

    "And as for YOU, the anointing that YOU received from him remains in YOU, and YOU do not need anyone to be teaching YOU; but, as the anointing from him is teaching YOU about all things, and is true and is no lie, and just as it has taught YOU, remain in union with him."

    The Baptism:

    (Acts 2:38) Peter [said] to them: "Repent, and let each one of YOU be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for forgiveness of YOUR sins, and YOU will receive the free gift of the holy spirit. (When would people receive holy spirit? )

    (Acts 5:32) And we are witnesses of these matters, and so is the holy spirit, which God has given to those obeying him as ruler." (Who received holy spirit?)

    (Acts 10:45-46) And the faithful ones that had come with Peter who were of those circumcised were amazed, because the free gift of the holy spirit was being poured out also upon people of the nations. For they heard them speaking with tongues and magnifying God. (Was the holy spirit restricted to certain people?)

    (Acts 11:16-17) At this I called to mind the saying of the Lord, how he used to say, ‘John, for his part, baptized with water, but YOU will be baptized in holy spirit.’ If, therefore, God gave the same free gift to them as he also did to us who have believed upon the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I should be able to hinder God?" & (John 1:33) Even I did not know him, but the very One who sent me to baptize in water said to me, ‘Whoever it is upon whom you see the spirit coming down and remaining, this is the one that baptizes in holy spirit.’ (Paul said that there was "one Lord, one faith, one baptism")

    (Acts 15:7-8) Now when much disputing had taken place, Peter rose and said to them: "YOU well know that from early days God made the choice among YOU that through my mouth people of the nations should hear the word of the good news and believe; and God, who knows the heart, bore witness by giving them the holy spirit, just as he did to us also. (To whom did Jehovah give holy spirit, and why?)

    (Acts 19:2) and he said to them: "Did you receive holy spirit when YOU became believers?" (What did Paul expect to happen to anyone who became a believer in Christ's ransom ?)

    (Ephesians 1:13-14) But YOU also hoped in him after YOU heard the word of truth, the good news about YOUR salvation. By means of him also, after YOU believed, YOU were sealed with the promised holy spirit, which is a token in advance of our inheritance, for the purpose of releasing by a ransom [God’s] own possession, to his glorious praise.

    (Ephesians 4:30) Also, do not be grieving God’s holy spirit, with which YOU have been sealedfor a day of releasing by ransom. (What sequence of events led to someone receiving holy spirit?)

    (Titus 3:5,6) but according to his mercy he saved us through the bath that brought us to life and through the making of us new by holy spirit. This [spirit] he poured out richly upon us through Jesus Christ our Savior, (Was Paul addressing his words to only those with the heavenly hope?)

    (Galatians 5:22-25) The fruitage of the spirit is love, joy, peace, long-suffering, kindness, goodness, faith, mildness, self-control. Against such things there is no law. Moreover, those who belong to Christ Jesus, impaled the flesh together with its passions and desires. If we are living by spirit, let us go on walking orderly also by spirit. (To display the fruitage of the spirit, wouldn't someone need to have the spirit?)

    Spirit & Water Essential:

    (Matthew 3:11) I, for my part, baptize YOU with water because of YOUR repentance; but the one coming after me is stronger than I am, whose sandals I am not fit to take off. That one will baptize YOU people with holy spirit and with fire. (John 1:33) Even I did not know him, but the very One who sent me to baptize in water said to me, ‘Whoever it is upon whom you see the spirit coming down and remaining, this is the one that baptizes in holy spirit.’

    (John 3:5) "Most truly I say to you, Unless anyone is born from water and spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God."

    (Acts 1:5) because John, indeed, baptized with water, but YOU will be baptized in holy spirit not many days after this."

    (Acts 10:45) And the faithful ones that had come with Peter who were of those circumcised were amazed, because the free gift of the holy spirit was being poured out also upon people of the nations.

    (Acts 11:16) At this I called to mind the saying of the Lord, how he used to say, ‘John, for his part, baptized with water, but YOU will be baptized in holy spirit.’

    (Acts 19:6) And when Paul laid his hands upon them, the holy spirit came upon them, and they began speaking with tongues and prophesying.

    (1 Cor. 6:11) YOU have been washed clean, but YOU have been sanctified, but YOU have been declared righteous in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ and with the spirit of our God.

    (1 Corinthians 12:13) For truly by one spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink one spirit.

    (Matthew 28:19) Go therefore and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit,

    (Acts 8:36) Now as they were going over the road, they came to a certain body of water, and the eunuch said: "Look! A body of water; what prevents me from getting baptized?"

    (Acts 10:47) "Can anyone forbid water so that these might not be baptized who have received the holy spirit even as we have?"

    (Acts 19:5) On hearing this, they got baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

    (Ephesians 4:5) One Lord, one faith, one baptism.

    (2 Corinthians 1:21) (1 John 2:20,27)

    Spirit & Water Baptism

  • Bobcat
    Bobcat

    Searcher:

    First of all, good to hear from you. I always enjoy your posts.

    I was starting to think along the same lines as you with regard to being born with water and spirit (from Jn chap.3) and the term 'anointing."

    It had started to occur to me that the WT uses the term anoint/anointed a whole lot - but only in connection with certain Christians (the 144,000 of course, which to the WT refers either to early Christians, the GB or to a mysterious "faithful slave class, which effectively means , the GB). But as you pointed out, the Bible doesn't use with regard to Christians except for a few (4x) times. And one of your threads had gotten the thinking wheels starting to spin about this.

    But, we might have to take this up on another thread. I hate to hijack this one which dealt more with the Nisan 14/15 issue. "Anointed" is related to the Lord's Evening Meal and the Nisan 14/15 issue, but somewhat indirectly.

    I had been mulling this over. But now, this encourages me to do a little more earnest research on the subject.

    Take Care

  • The Searcher
    The Searcher

    @ BOBCAT

    Just a quick p.s.

    Consider Jesus' words to Nicodemus, at John 3:3-5.

    "Unless anyone is born AGAIN, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

    "Most truly I say to you, Unless anyone is born from water and spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God."

    Jesus was addressing someone who understood that he had been 'born' into God's nation - but that nation was soon to be replaced by the 'Israel of God', where all and sundry would be welcome.

    However, Jesus stressed the aspects of 'water and spirit', indicating that JEWS would have to be 'born again' - into the Christ - recognising that the Mosaic Law now no longer had any hold over them - they were under 'the Law of the Christ' and were covered by his once-for-all-time sacrifice.

    Gentiles on the other hand, had no need to be 'born again'.

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