All scripture is inspired of god...which scripture?

by jamesmahon 24 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  jamesmahon

  Don't know why but was thinking of 2 Timothy 3:16 last night (you know 'all scripture is inspired of god etc')

  I was thinking this scripture is used by the JWs as well as others to say that the bible is the word of god. However, as the bible is a construct several hundred years after the death of christ each writer was unaware of the bible as a whole. So to what is Paul referring? Is it:

  The torah?

  The gospels?

  All jewish religious writings written before christ?

  What is strange is that this text is used to refer to Paul's own writings - but did Paul say that his letters were scripture let alone what he was writing was inspired scripture? And what about the writings that came after Paul? When did it cease to be inspired? Paul puts no time frame on this.

  Clearly Paul had some idea of the 'scripture' to which he was referring and his audience must have as well as he uses the term 'all' (or maybe the Greek actually has a more nuanced meaning that is lost in English?) rather than listing texts that he considered inspired. For example, he could have said 'The torah and the gospels are inspired by god and beneficial. The rest can be ignored'.

  I suppose this is less of a question and more of an observation and perhaps a poorly defined thought. Has anyone else ever thought the same?
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  wannabefree

  Interestingly, I had a similar question regarding this scripture ... here are the answers I got.

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/202083/1/What-are-scriptures-Seriously
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  Black Sheep

  Read verse 8 and tell us which scripture he is quoting?
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  jamesmahon

  Thanks wannabe - looks like you had the same problem. The answers are not great but then half the thread is Aguest...

  Black sheep. You lost me.

  I think this is one that is very difficult to answer. Here was an opportunity to be explicit for god to be explicit over which texts are inspired and all he says is 'all scripture'. The only way this works is if there is a body of text that is considered by the majority of the readership to be 'scripture'. Which is that which is already written or that is written in future but follows the tradition of what has been written before. In which case should the Talmud be considered inspired? And the letters of Paul do not as far as I can follow the scriptural form of what had gone before. Were any of the other Jewish writings in the form of letters?
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  leavingwt

  Your world is about to get larger. Enjoy the ride, and try to maintain a good sense of humor. Say goodbye to Fundamentalism.

  
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  leavingwt

  Same logic, here.

  
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  Phizzy

  To me it is plain that Paul is referring to "Scripture" that both he and Timothy would hold as writings that God had inspired. (How he viewed "inspiration" we do not know)

  Such writings would be the ones used by Jews of Pauls day, including much that is not in our Canon.

  It is also plain to me that no writings of man, even if called scripture, have any input from "god", as god does not exist.
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  Black Sheep

  Black sheep. You lost me.

  In verse 8 of the same chapter, the author is not quoting anything that is included in the Bible, but it is familiar to his readers.

  8 Now in the way that Jan′nes and Jam′bres resisted Moses, so these also go on resisting the truth, men completely corrupted in mind, disapproved as regards the faith. 9 Nevertheless, they will make no further progress, for their madness will be very plain to all, even as the [madness] of those [two men] became.

  So, if the quoted scripture was inspired of god, why wasn't it included?

  That is more of an observation than a question. All scripture looks more like man's thoughts about god than god's thoughts about man, to me.
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  transhuman68

  LOL, you are going down the slippery chute here, because scholars like Bart Ehrman are convinced that 2 Timothy itself is 'forged', that is, not written by Paul, but someone claiming to be Paul and writing letters in his name- which calls the "inspired" claim into question.
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  panhandlegirl

  I always wondered the same thing since the Bible had not been put together at the time Paul said those words. I assumed the "scripture" referred to the OT that they did have on hand.

  PHG