Is going from the JWs to another Religion just a "Rebound?"

by braincleaned 52 Replies latest jw friends

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  King Solomon

  Sulla said:

  So, nobody sees the problem with the claim that the God of Jews and Christians "originates" his "existence" from written scriptures. I see King Solomon, nearly hits the answer while taking one of his fan-pleasing roundhouse kicks at religion, but everyone else just sits around scratching.

  Uh, me not as smurt as u, but mebbe u speak about circlar lodgik, where faith in gawd be based on Bible book claims that gawd exist?

  So yeah, but you weren't the first to notice that little problem, and many of us used that argument on JWs, to have it bounce off their helmeted heads; no effect. It's almost as good as when a Xian uses the Bible to tells an atheist, "the fool says in their heart there is no God". Yeah, like maybe the Bible would contain a scripture saying, "ya' know, those atheists DO make pretty compelling, science-based evidence to support their ideology: you might consider looking into it...."

  RVW said:

  KSol-When a man can create something from nothing- not out of something else already existing, then I would have to reconsider my belief that humans are spiritual beings and of God's existence.

  Start reconsidering then:

  http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/1997/09/970918045841.htm

  Einstein is the one who is credited with explaining matter (something) can be created from energy, and vice-versa (energy from matter is easier to do, obviously), with his famous E = mc².

  NOW, prove to me not only that God exists, but that he created anything (whether matter or energy) from nothing.... Pretty hard to do, as God has to be something himself, right? Is he energy? So, who created the energy that he is made of? Himself?

  It's easy to say impossible illogical nonsense, but simply ascribing them to something imaginary is no solution.

  BTW, you're assuming that matter and energy need to be created: says who?
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  King Solomon

  Braincleaned said:

  Apostatethunder: "Believing in God or not is a personal decision, that should be respected."It's one thing to respect a personal belief. It's another to question it.
  So. as much as I respect personal beliefs, I am not bound to respect any religion, given it's lack of base in reason and logic. I have the right to hate organized religion, and I do.

  Heck, I'll take that further.

  Where'd we get the silly idea that other's personal beliefs are beyond questioning? It's that "everyone's entitled to their own opinion" homile that is a symptom of PC thought that pervades some. Xians, did Jesus shy away from ridicule, and derision, to avoid someone's ego getting a boo-boo? Hardly.... He tried to get people to snap the furk out of their delusions....

  If I REALLY believe that aliens from Mars have invaded your body, and I honestly feel I can help you by washing your skin with some special water, then you'd rightly think I was nutso and have me arrested for assault if I threw the water on you without your consent. But somehow it becomes acceptable in some people's minds if you substitute the word 'demon' and 'holy water' into the above statement, and the person is a priest?

  People ARE entitled to their own opinions, and are allowed to SHARE them with others, as part of their freedom of speech. HOWEVER, other people EQUALLY have the right to deride you for being illogical, and for believing non-sense. They also have a right to be protected from you, if your beliefs lead to ACTIONS that harm others (9/11, anyone?).

  When someone presents something as silly and absurd as the Illuminati crap (that's the first thing that comes to mind), then the ONLY PROPER response is facts, with a fair measure of ridicule, as warranted. Silly ideas deserve a silly response, and some of the stuff (eg lions as vegetarians) is so over-the-top that a face palm doesn't begin to express it....

  And as the old saying goes, people MAY be entitled to their opinions, but they're NOT entitled to make up their own FACTS to support their opinions.
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  QueenWitch

  To answer the original question -

  I think there is a possiblity of going to a rebound religion after leaving JW. After I made the decision to not return, I researched other Christian paths, then other religions. I was introduced to SGI Nichiren Buddhism. This particular sect follows the president of SGI, Ikeda. Immediately, my spidey senses were tingling. Currently I'm part of my local UU congregation. It has enough structure for fellowship but I am free to follow my own spiritual way.

  Exiting JWs need to be careful. Take lots of time to research before joining anything.
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  apostatethunder

  I will never join another high control group in my life, religious or not. My religion does not manipulate me in any way these days. And I like to be part of the ceremonies, and traditions, plus they are helping many people in different ways that I support.

  For me not believing in God is illogical, and I find atheist are in general not very respectful and some of them even totalitarian, which I don’t like.

  Personally I have no interest whatsoever in debating with any atheist about our respective beliefs, a lot of atheist though are very similar to the witnesses in that they want to debate with people that has no interest.

  Ex-jws that were dogmatic and judgemental when they were in the WT will continue to be so even if they leave, their beliefs will change, but not their character. A dogmatic atheist is a fanatic, because if I can not prove God exists, he can not prove He doesn’t. So the best option is live and let live.

  It saddens me that people don’t seem to realize that you don’t need to join another religion to be manipulated. You just have to believe everything you hear in the news without questioning it, or support a political party without understanding what they really stand for.

  King Solomon, about the Illuminate, you seem very determined to prove they don’t exist, and I start to believe you may be part of the conspiracy.

  The signs are there. Look at Lady Gaga calling people “idiots” at every opportunity. Same for the WT publications, maybe somebody in HQ is really p****d off, or maybe they are laughing out loud about it, or maybe they just want apostates to spend their valuable time analyzing their worthless publications.
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  Sulla

  Am I not being clear? Of course any thought precedes written record. How does that make the Bible any more coherent with logic and reason?
  I contend that the spiritual and moral matters in the Bible are no more relevant than its medical, scientific mumbo jumbo. I think my OP is very clear.

  No, you were clear. Perhaps you don't understand your argument. Belief in the Christian God doesn't come from sciptures and the scriptures (with some exceptions) are not theological works. So, as I said, you've got your cart and horses all helter skelter.

  Sulla: " Finally: consider the (very remote) possibility that you are not quite as awesome as you think."
  
  This is my constant concern. This is why I fight confirmation bias. I was a christian minister for over 4 decades -- beleive me, it was damn hard to let go. I lost my family for just being coherant with my conscience.

  I suspect you mean to say you were a JW for 4 decades. That is more nearly the opposite of being a Christian. The bad habits picked up as a JW are hard to let go, for sure. One particularly bad habit is the idea that you are just so amazing and insightful and everyone else who thinks differently is stupid.

  Very difficult to let go of. As we can see.

  In time, the more I know, the more questions I raise. I will never have all the answers, but I try hard to understand the questions the best I can.

  Hmm. You seem to think you've got it pretty well sorted.

  How ironic that someone who thinks the Unvierse was created with them in mind would dare hint on me being the conceited one. LOL!

  How could anyone dare hint you think too much of yourself, indeed? But, as I try to point out, this is typical half-educated, JW-leftover bullshit, I'm afraid. I mean, you've just made a pretty uneducated comment here and you are entirely unaware of it. I can help: in the Christian understanding, the knowledge that God created all things with humans in mind should make humans

  a) less humble

  b) more humble

  I think you got this question wrong the first time.

  As for morality, the simple fact that we have only recently considered slavery a bad thing proves how far we have come to the Abrahamic god's filthy immorality. Just like all the other myths, he ended up proven man-made with human bad traits. (This goes for Jesus who fully supports the Law in Matt. 5.)

  Ah. I see you disregarded that parts where I suggested a) s uppose that this experience of the transcendent happens to people who very like us in some ways and very unlike us in other ways and b) consider the (very remote) possibility that you are not quite as awesome as you think. Really, people should listen to me more. It's like I'm talking to myself.
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  aposta-Z

  "I find atheist are in general not very respectful and some of them even totalitarian, which I don’t like."
  
  It is like them cancer totalitarians who are not very respectful of asbestos.
  
  
  
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  Diest

  Sulla without the bible there is no proof of a Christian god vs. a Muslim god vs. a Zoroastrian god. Out of the scripture (egg) hatches the god (chicken). There is nothing in nature that says 'Well I am an inerrant sinner and I need a ransom sacrifice to save me." All of that has to be taught to someone. We are all born with a desire to understand the world around us, but we are not born with the knowledge of a Christian god or any other god. That’s why 2/3 of the world is not Christian.

  This is my consistent issue with most monotheists. If someone who was not primed with the thoughts that it could be true, then most people will not be swayed by religion. Take someone that has never met a Christian or read about them by age 30. Then explain that god wrote down prophesy about Jerusalem falling in 70CE. Then tell them that the oldest bible manuscript we have is from 150CE. What would that prove? That people could write down things after the fact.

  At this point in the world we are no longer bamboozled by the stories. We have an ability to look at these stories and know that they are not fact.
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  ziddina

  aaaarrrrgh...

  I never called it "confirmation bias"; I always called it "herdthink" and I think it's been referred to in "1984" as 'groupthink' [?????]

  I've posted before - I think it was on one of Cedar's threads - that humanity's fear of death is the main reason religion is still with us.

  Even though religion only pretends to be absolutely certain about that great big, scary question, ...

  It makes grandiose promises with rock-solid certainty about some sort of 'flowery kingdom' - er, 'happy hunting grounds' - er, '72 virgins' - er, 'land of the Western seas' - er, 'heaven'...

  In which everyone will live happily ever after - er, be very happy for eternity.

  A lot of people cannot accept their eventual demise. I suspect most psychologists and psychiatrists would state that facing one's own mortality is the greatest hurdle in most peoples' minds.

  And too many people flee from the looming spectre of their own extinguishment.
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  THE GLADIATOR

  Re: Is going from the JWs to another Religion just a "Rebound?"

  Yeah!
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  ziddina

  Oh, and just for the record...??

  I haven't accepted my eventual demise, either...

  It's going to have to knock me in the head and drag me out kicking and screaming, when it comes!!!

  

  But I'm NOT praying to some johnny-come-lately Middle-Eastern nomadic volcano-worshipping males' god in a vain attempt to stave death off.

  I'd rather take vitamins/minerals and exercise regularly than THAT!!!