From Noah to Jerusalem: What is: Abstain from Blood?

by Terry 27 Replies latest watchtower medical

Terry

At a certain point in time, in the 1st Century C.E., the two groups of humanity stood face to face: the covenant JEWS and the Noahide GENTILES.
They were about to join hands for the first time by being grafted together under a belief in Jesus as the redeemer of BOTH groups.

This raised a conflict which needed to be settled.

The conflict was this:
Jews have special laws which the Gentiles do not.
SHOULD THE GENTILES PRACTICE JEWISH LAW ? Or, was an alternative permissable from Jehovah's viewpoint: WERE THE GENTILES acceptable inside the JEWISH system without adopting JEWISH LAW too?

____The answer is Yes!____________________________________________________________________________

The Jews considered all mankind to have come from Noah and his family.
Jews considered themselves under a special relationship to God by reason of special laws given through Moses.
The Moses laws were only binding on Jews while the Noah Laws were binding on Gentiles

Jesus came along and demonstrated that the Laws (all laws) which came from God were for the BENEFIT of humans.
Humans were not to serve the LAW, but, the LAW was to serve humanity.
________________________________________________________________________________
What are the 7 Laws of Noah?
The Seven Laws of Noah are:

1. Belief in a Supreme Being and the prohibition of worshipping any other beings.
2. Respect G-d and Do Not Blaspheme His Name.
3. Respect Human Life and Do Not Murder
4. Respect the Family and Do Not Commit Immoral Sexual Acts such as adultery, homosexuality, and incest
5. Respect Others' Rights and Do Not Steal
6. Create a Judicial System which will uphold the other six Laws and Pursue Justice.
7. Respect all Creatures and Do Not Eat the Flesh of a Living Animal. (meaning the removal of flesh from a live animal)
_____________________________________________________________________________
Review the above 7 Laws and then read this:
Augustine of Hippo in the 4th century, in Contra Faustum 32.13 noted:
"The observance of pouring out the blood which was enjoined in ancient times upon Noah himself after the deluge is thought by many to be what is meant in the Acts of the Apostles, where we read that the Gentiles were required to abstain from fornication, and from things sacrificed, and from blood, that is, from flesh of which the blood has not been poured out. Others give a different meaning to the words, and think that to abstain from blood means not to be polluted with the crime of murder ." (see #3 above)
With the words of Augustine firmly in mind we now ask this important question:
The Jerusalem Council failed to prohibt murder? (bloodshed). Wouldn't "abstain from blood" cover that very important prohibition?
*From Wiki:
The Noahide Laws are regarded as the way through which non-Jews can have a direct and meaningful relationship with God or at least comply with the minimal requisites of civilization and of divine law.

A non-Jew who keeps the Noahide Law in all its details is said to attain the same spiritual and moral level as Israel's own (high priest) (Talmud, Bava Kamma 38a). Maimonides states that a Gentile who is precise in the observance of these Seven Noahide commandments is considered to be a Righteous Gentile and has earned a place in the world to come.
Jehovah's Witnesses want to interpret the words of the Jerusalem Council in a way that doesn't exactly fit the CONTEXT!

Acts 15:19-21
English Standard Version (ESV)

19 Therefore my judgment is that we should not trouble those of the Gentiles who turn to God, 20 but should write to them to abstain from the things polluted by idols, and from sexual immorality, and from what has been strangled, and from blood. 21 For from ancient generations Moses has had in every city those who proclaim him, for he is read every Sabbath in the synagogues.”
The Law preserves and improves life. Abstaining from Blood(shed) preserves Life! Abstaining from Blood(transfusion) has resulted in the DEATHs of
observers of this prohibition.
WHAT GOOD ARE DEAD KEEPERS OF A LAW to God or the world of mankind?
What is better a Living or a Dead worshipper?
The Watchtowers "famous" scholars have yet to publish any instances of the Laws of the sons of Noah that I am aware of. If this is correct, we have to ask ourselves WHY a theological education should overlook this important piece of bible history!
Wiki:
Some Christian writers[2], particularly those affiliated with Primitive Apostolic Christianity see the verses in Acts 15:19-21 as a directive from the first Council of Jerusalem to observe the basic understanding of the Noahide Laws in order to be considered righteous Gentiles, and not be required to live completely as Jews.
Terry

A bit of Trivia:
Public Law 102-14, 102nd Congress, that the United States of America was founded upon the Seven Universal Laws of Noah, and that these Laws have been the bedrock of society from the dawn of civilization. They also acknowledged that the Seven Laws of Noah are the foundation upon which civilization stands and that recent weakening of these principles threaten the fabric of civilized society, and that justified preoccupation in educating the Citizens of the United States of America and future generations is needed. For this purpose, this Public Law designated March 26, 1991 as Education Day, U.S.A.
mP

Terry:
Where does the BIble list only 7 laws of Noah?
Terry

Where does the BIble list only 7 laws of Noah?
Like most of the content of scripture the Documentary Hypothesis best explains the process of later writers superimposing over history.
The Noahide Laws were for resident aliens. The Pharisees were traditionally seeking converts wherever they could find them. Whom they brought in to the fold were dealt with legalistically.
I deal with this matter skeptically, historically and realistically by raising the above question.
glenster

If I had to put it as simply as possible, I respect that the basic God concept
is possible, and you could have faith understood as such, for a possible God be-
yond the known things (Liberal/Progressive/Reform). But public acceptance for
hurting or killing (as by letting a child die at a hospital) for perceived in-
tegrity of an old interpretation of an old text (Orthodox/Conservative) requires
proof of God, and proof he wants the hurting and killing done, for all or it's
arbitrary hurting and killing--sadism and murder.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SEllHMWkXEU
Anything less than certainty about meanings of old texts only adds to the
arbitrariness of the hurting and killing. The GB policies are at best arbitrary
and at worst self-contradictory and in contradiction to scriptures and history.
That's why I cover even uncertainties of the GB policies to the degree I do.
Problems with tying the idea of 7 Noachine rules to the GB policies for
Acts 15
http://gtw6437.tripod.com/id30.html
History of interpretations of the Council of Jerusalem
http://gtw6437.tripod.com/id27.html
http://gtw6437.tripod.com/id28.html
Degree of blood removal by slaughter
http://gtw6437.tripod.com/id26.html
Blood removal isn't really specified until Mosaic law, then degree of blood
removal (as much as possible, koshering--Jewish/generalization, more than half--
GB) isn't really clear, although the Jewish view has the better case, until Je-
sus' time, when the Jews believed in koshering.
http://gtw6437.tripod.com/id30.html
Most people at this message board probably don't need me to explain the case,
but the stronger case is that the Christians didn't have to worry about kosher-
ing but didn't want to alienate Jewish law followers, who were particularly con-
cerned that the Gentiles did the four things of the rules of Acts 15 (Paul's
writings about food, Acts 15,16,21).
http://gtw6437.tripod.com/id50.html
Terry

Well, my point is that the phrase "abstain from....blood" meant "thou shalt not kill" rather than "don't eat candy with blood lecithin in it".
TD

Damn those Gentile Christians! If they would just quit murdering, everything would be okay....
"What shall we do? They will certainly hear that you have come, so do what we tell you. There are four men with us who have made a vow. Take these men, join in their purification rites and pay their expenses, so that they can have their heads shaved. Then everyone will know there is no truth in these reports about you, but that you yourself are living in obedience to the law. As for the Gentile believers, we have written to them our decision that they should abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality.”
sabastious

Well, my point is that the phrase "abstain from....blood" meant "thou shalt not kill" rather than "don't eat candy with blood lecithin in it".
Genesis 9 is the written account of the covenant made by God to Noah and his family. In verse four God strictly prohibits Noah from eating blood:
4 “But you must not eat meat that has its lifeblood still in it. 5 And for your lifeblood I will surely demand an accounting. I will demand an accounting from every animal. And from each human being, too, I will demand an accounting for the life of another human being.

6 “Whoever sheds human blood,
by humans shall their blood be shed;
for in the image of God
has God made mankind.

7 As for you, be fruitful and increase in number; multiply on the earth and increase upon it.”
Blood is being shown here to represent the life of the vessel containing it. Eating it would be disrespectful to the life taken. Murder is mentioned within the same block as eating animal blood. I think you are right when you say that "abstain from blood" means "do not murder", but it also would mean not to eat the blood of animals. Acts 15 is continuing the Noahide tradition because it made sense. Respect life on all levels. Respect blood. Never was it meant to enable the shedding of innocent blood like it has been used in the Watchtower.
-Sab
glenster

"Well, my point is that the phrase 'abstain from....blood' meant "thou shalt
not kill" rather than "don't eat candy with blood lecithin in it".
I agree about the candy.
That "abstain from....blood' meant "thou shalt not kill" is imaginable at Acts
15 and has been proposed before but I doubt it. "Abstain from murder" would be
more likely as a way to phrase that, esp. in a Jewish community that would like-
ly take "abstain from blood" as a rule about koshering.
Likewise, "abstain from idolatry" would be more clearly about all types of
idolatry, which don't always involve food, than phrases about astaining from
types of food idolators might use which could be used otherwise as just food.
Besides, abstain from murder wouldn't be qualified by the idea of "because of
Jewish law followers."
But non-kosher meat butchered by Gentiles, used in idol ceremonies, and temple
prostitution, fornication to Jewish law followers, were common among Gentiles
and made them unclean to Jewish law followers, who saw problems in the Chris-
tians accepting Gentiles into the fold.
Likewise, a prohibition of blood per se as food in Gen.9 is imaginable, but
the least it needs to refer to is live animals and murder. Imagining blood per
se at Gen.9 runs into a conflict with followers told to give others meat from
animals found dead (not a problem w/Gen.9) and undrained of blood (it would be
a problem w/Gen.9 if taken to include a prohibition of literal blood) at Deut.
14:21.
By Christian times, Christians aren't told to believe in Jesus but, if they
don't, they can use a discount package--you only need to follow the Noachine
rules. The "because" given in Acts 15 (as at 16:3, regarding having Timothy
circumcised, and at 21:20-25) is the existence of Jewish law followers (a common
part of the Christian community before 70 AD), not because of anything about
Noah.
Terry

Genesis 9 is the written account of the covenant made by God to Noah and his family. In verse four God strictly prohibits Noah from eating blood:
4 “But you must not eat meat that has its lifeblood still in it. 5 And for your lifeblood I will surely demand an accounting. I will demand an accounting from every animal. And from each human being, too, I will demand an accounting for the life of another human being.
Well, the Rabbinical writings say that it means not to eat a STILL LIVING animal.

From Noah to Jerusalem: What is: Abstain from Blood?

Acts 15:19-21

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