Did Jesus insult the Pharisees?

by I_love_Jeff 13 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  I_love_Jeff

  This question not only aplies to Jehovah's Witnesses but to Christians as well. Any one have a clear answer for me? Did Jesus revile? What about 1 Peter 2:22? Did someone make a mistake? If someone said these harsh words to me, I would take them as insults. Wouldn't you? Are insults in the Bible called something else like constructive criticism?

  The Bible:

  "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because you shut the
  kingdom of heaven against men; for you neither enter yourselves, nor
  allow those who would enter to go in."
  
  "You blind men..."
  
  "...straining out a gnat and swallowing a camel!"
  
  "...full of extortion and rapacity."
  
  "...you appear righteous to men but within you are full of hypocrisy
  and iniquity."
  
  "You serpents, you brood of vipers..."
  
  "Blind guides..."
  "...how are you to escape being sentenced to hell."
  
  Jehovah's Witness Elder's Manual- Reviling means "subjecting a person to insulting speech and heaping abuse upon him". This is something that is outlined in your official rulebook Elder's manual.
  
  To JWs: Reviling is wrong is it not? According to the JW's rule book + 1Pe 2:22-"...he did not go reviling in return", Jesus would be accused of insulting the Pharisees, would he not? Would you be insulted if an apostate said these words to you?
  
  Here is something a JW said in a previous question we posted on yahoo answers: "Like Jesus and many followers did, it's a matter if it's deserved or not"
  
  So it's okay to insult others if it's done righteously? Some JWs say "If it's deserved, then it's okay". Interesting.
• 

  I_love_Jeff

  Correction 1 Peter 2:23

  Also, one other note to add: Since the Jehovah's Witnesses state the apostles made mistakes when trying to cover up their (JWs) wishy washy doctrine, could it be possible that Peter made a mistake in the passage I am referring to above?
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  Band on the Run

  I have a feeling that Jesus never actually said these quotes. He himself, personally, followed many Pharaisic practices. He dined with them on social occasions. When he upse the money-changing tables in the Temple, he rejected Saducee temple worship.

  He may have been classified as a Pharisee during his ministry. I don't know enough to say. The later church may have put those words into Jesus' mouth because of the tension between Jews and Christians, and, even, Jewish and Gentile Christians.

  Do they ever apply to the WT!
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  King Solomon

  If Jesus said those words to someone else on the JWN forum, he'd be violating the following rules:

  1. Insulting, threatening or provoking language
  2. Inciting hatred on the basis of race, religion, gender, nationality or sexuality or other personal characteristic.
  3. Swearing, using hate-speech or making obscene or vulgar comments.

  But since he's The Son of God, it's like he knows Daddy will bail him out of a jam. :)

  So it's okay to insult others if it's done righteously? Some JWs say "If it's deserved, then it's okay". Interesting.

  Why am I thinking of a child who calls their brother Johnny an idiot in retaliation, and gets called on the carpet by Mom.

  Child: "But Johnny called me an idiot first!"

  To which Mom says, "Remember that Jesus said to turn the other cheek..."

  Child: "You mean like he did with the Pharisees and Scribes?"

  Mom: "But they DESERVED IT!"

  (child looks up to her in wonderment, at her complete lack of cognitive dissonance).
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  tec

  The truth insulted them.

  Peace,

  tammy
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  King Solomon

  The truth insulted them.

  If that were the case, then why did Jesus have to resort to calling them gnats, vipers, tell them they were going to Hell, etc? (Hmmm, Xian debating tactics are actually starting to make sense now: they're just following in the Lord's footsteps!)

  If the truth was the point, he should've just calmly explained his point, using non-belittling terms, and left it at that.

  One thing is for certain: he definitely got his temper from his Father!
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  still thinking

  Because god is love...and Jesus is a reflection of his fathers love...If you have seen him...you have seen the father.

  being horrible is ok...if its done out of love....just like suffering is good if it serves a purpose...the means justifies then end.
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  I_love_Jeff

  Two conclusions to consider why Jesus spoke out the way he did:

  1) "...tension between Jews and Christians, and, even, Jewish and Gentile Christians".

  2) Constructive critisism

  Thank you soooo much for all your responses. Cheers. Thank you Band on the Run.
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  Leolaia

  This is quite typical of inner-Jewish polemics between the different religious parties. The Qumran sect of Essenism also had some very choice words to say about the (Hasmonean) Sadducees and the Pharisees. Jesus is portrayed particularly by Matthew as a Torah-observant reformer critical of the practices of the Pharisees while recognizing their halakhic authority. This gospel represents a form of Christian Judaism that was open to Gentile inclusion but which insisted on Torah observance (in contrast to Paul) and which had tensions with the Pharisees, particularly following the collapse of the other religious parties after AD 70 and following the general adoption of the Birkat ha-Minim around AD 80 (which was around the time the gospel was written). It is anachronistic to characterize the tension as one between Christians and Jews.
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  Band on the Run

  Leo,

  I am glad that you joined the conversation b/c I have wondered about this every time Pharisees are discussed in church or in general culture. The thought that Jesus never targetted Pharisees as harshly as he does in the NT occurred to me. It was not something I read and repeated. I lack the background, though, to figure out the details or the correctness of my assumption.

  Are you saying he probably was so critical? How would it be anachronistic to note a larger struggle between Jews and Christians or within Christianity at the time the gospels were written?

  I am trying to clarify the reasoning, not doubting your statement. Also, without pulling out my gospel parallels book, do these antiPharisee comments occur in all four gospels or only Matthew. If the denounciations stay the same when different audiences are being addressed, the likelihood of the historical Jesus saying them increases.