The "Secrecy Policy”

by Celestial 58 Replies latest watchtower scandals

  • sabastious
    sabastious

    Celestial I would like to remind you of where the Society gets it's elder requirements from in 1 Timothy 3:

    3 Here is a trustworthy saying: Whoever aspires to be an overseer desires a noble task. 2 Now the overseer is to be above reproach, faithful to his wife, temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, 3 not given to drunkenness, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money. 4 He must manage his own family well and see that his children obey him, and he must do so in a manner worthy of full respect. 5 (If anyone does not know how to manage his own family, how can he take care of God’s church?) 6 He must not be a recent convert, or he may become conceited and fall under the same judgment as the devil. 7 He must also have a good reputation with outsiders, so that he will not fall into disgrace and into the devil’s trap.

    8 In the same way, deacons are to be worthy of respect, sincere, not indulging in much wine, and not pursuing dishonest gain. 9 They must keep hold of the deep truths of the faith with a clear conscience. 10 They must first be tested; and then if there is nothing against them, let them serve as deacons.

    Your lengthy analysis of the JW child protection policy doesn't line up with Paul's qualifications in the slightest. The moral thing to do upon hearing about pedophilia is to get involved. In this day in age the local law enforcement is usually your best bet. But you still take matters into your own hands by informing them. Yet, for whatever reason, Elders of congregations of Jehovah's Witnesses, which were sworn by oath into an office of nobility under the qualifications of 1 Timothy 3, report first to the branch office for legal advice before taking righteous action. Only when the situation has first been assessed with a legal lense of the Watchtower do elders take matters into their own hands. This is like calling a snake noble. This obvious legal maneuver was never going to shield the Watchtower from it's crimes forever. It's merely a pathedic attempt to unnaturally elongate the life of a religion that should be long dead.

    In 1 Timothy is speaks of leaders being "tested" before being placed into a position of responsibility. I assert that your organization's tests are completely inadequate and yield dangerously ineffective leadership. That is where the problem lies. In the Society's people taking oaths that they ought not. They aren't the kind of men of nobility that it takes to stand up to something like pedophilia. No, the company yes men are the ones that are chosen and from a pool of lesser yes men. The good ones are told to shut up or are chased out. You disgust me Celestial. I don't honestly know how you sleep at night. It's like Outlaw said: selectively stupid.

    -Sab

  • Knowsnothing
    Knowsnothing

    Guys, Celestial surely doesn't side with pedo's. He's just caught trying to defend the JWs, because his mind cannot fathom another reality.

    I guess what he doesn't realize is this same legalistic logic can be used to defend Catholicism's pederasty.

    Wake-up Celestial. Defend the children, first and foremost.

  • wasblind
    wasblind

    The inaction of the WTS on pedophiles mean only one thing

    they condoned it, If it wasn't condoned, the WTS would have

    taken care to protect the victims

    Like the WTS say: No fence sittin' they either protect the victims, or they don't

  • wasblind
    wasblind
    condone - definition of condone by the Free Online Dictionary ...

    con·done (k n-d n) tr.v. con·doned, con·don·ing, con·dones. To overlook, forgive, or disregard (an offense) without protest or censure. See Synonyms at forgive.

    www.thefreedictionary.com/condone

  • Lady Lee
    Lady Lee

    OK I started to read the drivel and got angry. How many times do I need to say this.

    Clergy-Penitent privilege does not apply when it is the victim asking for help.

    It only applies when it is the abuser who confesses a crime to a member of the clergy.

    And that is only whne they are confessing to a real member of the clergy (which the WTS says JWs don't have) or a lawyer.

    When a victim goes to any professional and discloses instances of sexual abuse the law requires the professional to report to social services and the police - although each will notify the other.

    In Quebec Canada members of the public who are not professionals have a moral obligation to report - not a legal one. This might be different in other places.

    Whenever a child discloses sexual abuse or even physical abuse to the elders they would be morally required to call the authorities if they are not considered clergy. But since they also claim to be members of the clergy then they would be required by law to report, not to headquarters, but to the police or social services. Since they don't report in either case they are definitely morally and ethically negligent in helping the victim get the halp he or she asked for.

    The whole issue of clergy-penitent confidentiality is a straw man argument. It has nothing to do with a victim asking for help.

  • coffee_black
    coffee_black

    Thank you Lady Lee! You nailed it!

    Coffee

  • yknot
    yknot

    Sigh...

    Rachel,

    Your mind fascinates and vexes me at the same time.

    We all 'choose our battles'.....perhaps this one is best left alone and let the legal process come to a conclusion.

    How about a nice thread on Sunday's WT .....please purdy purdy purdy please because this thread is headed for an ugly turn and locking.

  • Celestial
    Celestial
    "Your lengthy analysis of the JW child protection policy doesn't line up with Paul's qualifications in the slightest. The moral thing to do upon hearing about pedophilia is to get involved. In this day in age the local law enforcement is usually your best bet. But you still take matters into your own hands by informing them. Yet, for whatever reason, Elders of congregations of Jehovah's Witnesses, which were sworn by oath into an office of nobility under the qualifications of 1 Timothy 3, report first to the branch office for legal advice before taking righteous action. Only when the situation has first been assessed with a legal lense of the Watchtower do elders take matters into their own hands. This is like calling a snake noble. This obvious legal maneuver was never going to shield the Watchtower from it's crimes forever. It's merely a pathedic attempt to unnaturally elongate the life of a religion that should be long dead.
    In 1 Timothy is speaks of leaders being "tested" before being placed into a position of responsibility. I assert that your organization's tests are completely inadequate and yield dangerously ineffective leadership. That is where the problem lies. In the Society's people taking oaths that they ought not. They aren't the kind of men of nobility that it takes to stand up to something like pedophilia. No, the company yes men are the ones that are chosen and from a pool of lesser yes men. The good ones are told to shut up or are chased out. You disgust me Celestial. I don't honestly know how you sleep at night. It's like Outlaw said: selectively stupid.
    -Sab"

    I wasn't just analyzing their policy, I was also analyzing this case. Mandatory reporting laws limit a person's options as to “taking matters into your own hands.” This is basically the federal government telling the Watchtower Society or any profit or non-profit organization that has deemed their authority figures or any person for that matter a mandated reporter: “What you think should be done about a select situation isn't your call, it's ours.”

    A question may arise. “What if by our standards, we feel that a certain matter is, “uncorroborated or unsubstantiated?” The laws in some states are definitive on this issue.

    http://www.jw-media.org/aboutjw/article23.htm

    In addition to making a report to the branch office, the elders may be required by law to report even uncorroborated or unsubstantiated allegations to the authorities. If so, the elders receive proper legal direction to ensure that they comply with the law. Additionally, the victim or anyone else who has knowledge of the allegation may wish to report the matter to the authorities, and it is his or her absolute right to do so.



    According to their public policy, the purpose for contacting the Watchtower Society's legal department is “to ensure that they comply with the law,” not simply for the purpose of receiving “legal advice.” The difference between “legal advice” and “to ensure that they comply with the law” is that the latter means they follow up and make sure that the matter is seen through to its completion. They may even obtain a police report and keep it on file if they can freely obtain such a record.

    As a Bible-based religion, the Watchtower Society can't require anything from congregation elders, other than what is specified in the Bible and what the law requires of them.

    Then he said to them: “Pay back, therefore, Caesar’s things to Caesar, but God’s things to God.” Matthew 22:21

    If this simple premise can't protect the Watchtower Society from litigation, if they can't mold their policy within this logical framework, we're entering a zone where the law, logic and principle need not apply.

    Civil liability seems to make an allowance for frivolous litigation.
  • TheOldHippie
    TheOldHippie

    Your statement, Phizzy, that "all of them fulfill the scripture about having "No natural affection" " is really hurtfull. Please, do not make such generalizations, your anger only ruins the good you are trying to do.

  • Phizzy
    Phizzy

    Dear Old Hippie, I know that "he who generalise, generally lies", but I do feel that all those in the clutches of the cult will act in a way that demonstrates that their natural affection has been suppressed if the Cult demands it.

    This is especially noticable in the lack of care and concern for the victims of abuse, even the parents of victims colluding with the WT's cover up policy, and policy of silence about dangerous predators.

    Yes, I am angry about this, no child or vulnerable person should have to suffer simply because the WT refuses to set up safeguards, and anyone that tries to defend the WT's position is despicable.

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