HOW MANY OF THE GENERAL PUBLIC WILL KNOW THAT ISAIAH 65:17 WAS FULFILLED OVER TWO AND A HALF THOUSAND YEARS AGO (ACCORDING TO THE WTS)?
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Would you like to wake up every morning with happy, positive thoughts?
That's exactly what the Bible promises us for the future. Our heavenly Father, Jehovah God, tells us:
"Here I am creating a new heavens and a new earth; and the former things will not be called to mind, neither will they come up into the heart."--Isaiah 65:17 [NWT]
Are you interested in knowing how that promise will be fulfilled?
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Thus declares the leaflet which advertises to the general public the coming District Assembly of JWs. You will notice it points to Isaiah 65:17 as being fulfilled in our future.
Yet this is what Insight I, page 1061 ('New heavens and new earth', paragraph 2) says about the fulfillment of this scripture:
"Even as the 'earth' can refer to a society of people (Ps 96:1; see EARTH), so, too, 'heavens' can symbolize the superior ruling power or government over such 'earth.' The prophecy presenting the promise of 'new heavens and a new earth,' given through Isaiah, was one dealing initially with the restoration of Israel from Babylonian exile. Upon the Israelites' return to their homeland, they entered into a new system of things. Cyrus the Great was used prominently by God in bringing about that restoration. Back in Jerusalem, Zerubbabel (a descendant of David) served as governor, and Joshua as high priest. In harmony with Jehovah’s purpose, this new governmental arrangement, or 'new heavens,' directed and supervised the subject people. (2Ch 36:23; Hag 1:1, 14) Thereby, as verse 18 of Isaiah chapter 65 foretold, Jerusalem became 'a cause for joyfulness and her people a cause for exultation.'"
Also, Insight II, page 497 ('New Jerusalem', paragraph 2) says:
"In 537 B.C.E., Jehovah created 'new heavens and a new earth' when the Jewish remnant was restored to Jerusalem from Babylonian exile. (Isa 65:17) Evidently the governorship of Zerubbabel (a descendant of David) aided by High Priest Joshua, at the city of Jerusalem, constituted the 'new heavens' then. (Hag 1:1, 14; see HEAVEN [New heavens and new earth].)"
So, according to the WTS, Isaiah 65:17 was talking about "the restoration of Israel from Babylonian exile", something not mentioned in the leaflet. Of course those two little words 'initial fulfillment' will no doubt be utilised for any who might discover that it was actually talking about ancient post-exilic Israelites!
How many of the general public will know that Isaiah 65:17 was fulfilled over two and a half thousand years ago (according to the WTS)?
by JWB 11 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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JWB
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snowbird
How many of the general public will care?
The Watchtower has no clout anymore.
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blondie
*** w00 1/15 p. 7 God’s Prophetic Word Gives Hope for the Future ***The public discourse, “Making All Things New—As Foretold,” wove together four key prophecies regarding the “new heavens” and the “new earth.” (Isaiah 65:17-25; 66:22-24; 2 Peter 3:13; Revelation 21:1, 3-5) Clearly, Jehovah had in mind a greater fulfillment of these prophecies than that upon his restored people in 537 B.C.E. Yes, he had in mind his Kingdom government (the “new heavens”) and its earthly subjects (the “new earth”), who would inhabit a glorious global paradise.
*** w00 4/15 p. 10 par. 9 Making All Things New—As Foretold ***The initial fulfillment of Isaiah 65:17-19 involved the ancient Jews who, as Isaiah accurately predicted, did return to their homeland, where they reestablished pure worship. (Ezra 1:1-4; 3:1-4)
*** w98 6/15 p. 32 What Future for Our Earth? ***The apostle Peter reminded Christians of a promise made by God centuries earlier: “There are new heavens and a new earth that we are awaiting according to [God’s] promise, and in these righteousness is to dwell.” (2 Peter 3:13) Such words were originally part of the prophecy of Isaiah. (Isaiah 65:17; 66:22) Ancient Israel experienced an initial fulfillment when the nation was restored to its promised land after being held captive in Babylon for 70 years. By reiterating the promise of “new heavens and a new earth,” Peter showed that the prophecy would yet be fulfilled on an even grander scale—worldwide!
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The WTS says this prophecy had an INITIAL and a future prophecy. A CYA measure they use on many "prophecies."
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Leolaia
The Society is completely correct that the promises of renewal in Trito-Isaiah concern the restoration of Judah following the Babylonian exile. What they cannot bring themselves to admit is that these promises did not see fruition. (Some historians, inferring from available sources, in fact suspect that the proto-messianic movement that Zechariah and Haggai supported was suppressed by the Persian authorities who never again allowed a Davidide to hold political office in the Yehud during the Persian Empire). And so the Society claims that the original understanding of the prophecy had an "initial fulfillment" (to the extent that the Jews experienced a restoration after exile), but since not everything expected in fact took place (such as a Davidic king at Jerusalem), designating a "future fulfillment" saves the prophecy from failure. It cannot be admitted as failure since it is recognized as scriptural (and thus inerrant), and so what failed to occur can simply be deferred to the future. The Society understands the logic of this too well, since they themselves do the same thing regarding their own prophecies. If a prophecy fails, it can be reinterpreted and the fulfillment deferred; at one time the battle of Armageddon was expected to end, or to occur, in 1914, but actual events that occurred that year led the Society to alter what was expected to occur in 1914, and defer the expected cataclysm of Armageddon into an unspecified time (or specified, in the case of 1925 and 1975) time in the future. As long as an expectation can be deferred, it could never be falsified by the passage of history. In fact, the JW expectation of a future paradise earth is nothing more than a modern variant reinterpretation of the post-exilic restoration promises to the Jews (the development of these ideas can be traced back centuries through Christian and earlier in Jewish biblical exegesis); ideological Zionism is yet another modern reinterpretation of the same promises. And of course the first-century AD Christian belief that Jesus of Nazareth is the Davidic Messiah whose kingdom would bring everlasting life to believers is indebted to the unfulfilled restoration prophecies as well.
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John Kesler
In Revelation 21, John reinterprets Isaiah 65, which creates an inconsistency: will there be death? I have color-coded the passages for easy comparison:
Isaiah 65: 17 For I am about to create new heavens
Revelation 21: Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more. 2 And I saw the holy city, the new Jerusalem , coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying,
and a new earth;
the former things shall not be remembered
or come to mind. 18 But be glad and rejoice forever
in what I am creating;
for I am about to create Jerusalem as a joy,
and its people as a delight.
19 I will rejoice in Jerusalem,
and delight in my people;
no more shall the sound of weeping be heard in it,
or the cry of distress.
20 No more shall there be in it
an infant that lives but a few days,
or an old person who does not live out a lifetime;
for one who dies at a hundred years will be considered a youth, and one who falls short of a hundred will be considered accursed.
"See, the home of God is among mortals.He will dwell with them;
they will be his peoples,
and God himself will be with them;4 he will wipe every tear from their eyes.
Death will be no more;
mourning and crying and pain will be no more,
for the first things have passed away." That Isaiah took a very this-worldly view of the NH and NE is obvious, too, in looking at the next verses, which talk about planting vineyards and building houses (v:21) as well as having children (v:23), the latter of which seems to contradict what Jesus said in Luke 20:34-36, which says that in the new age, there is no marriage. Without marriage, how would children be born? Keep in mind, too, that "Peter" at the time of 2 Peter, thought that Isaiah 65 was not yet fulfilled: 2 Peter 3:13 But, in accordance with his promise, we wait for new heavens and a new earth, where righteousness is at home. -
Acluetofindtheuser
The Society and the Abrahamic religions do not fully understand this scripture's fulfillment. No one can understand it until a new perception is revealed. For example everyone could not comprehend a spherical earth until mathematics through geometry was able to prove it, rockets with photographic equipment was able to reveal it, along with the concept of gravity to understand it.
The answer to the question would not benefit the religion who had it because no one would believe it. Hence, the problem with the missing perception. Early scientists calculated a round earth but the common man did not understand it until they saw it with their own eyes. Isaiah 65:17 won't be understood until there is supporting knowledge to explain it.
It will be revealed when the birth pangs begin.
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mP
firstky what we call isaiah is not actually the product of a single author but at best two sepeate works. chapters 40+ were written hundreds of years after the first half. there are mamy schilars who have noted the change in language and style and more. dont believe me but look for yourself...
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Leolaia
John Kessler....I have an old thread devoted to that topic: http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/bible/85470/1/Growing-Old-and-Dying-on-the-Paradise-Earth. The NWT mistranslates the passage in order to faciliate a harmonizing interpretation (one which clearly fails since it imposes on the text a notion of rebellion that is alien to it).
mP....There are actually three major divisions of Isaiah: Deutero-Isaiah is from ch. 40-55 and Trito-Isaiah is from ch. 56-66. The former dates to the time of Cyrus and in fact draws on pro-Cyrus propoganda (see my posts in this thread), the latter dates to around the time of Darius I. It is noteworthy that although the name "Isaiah" frequently occurs in ch. 1-39, the authors of ch. 40-66 nowhere use the name, nor even make the explicit claim of Isaian authorship.
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mP
@leo precisely, why a prophet from god would write pseudographically is well beyond my understanding.
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John Kesler
Leolaia wrote: John Kesler....I have an old thread devoted to that topic: http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/bible/85470/1/Growing-Old-and-Dying-on-the-Paradise-Earth. The NWT mistranslates the passage in order to faciliate a harmonizing interpretation (one which clearly fails since it imposes on the text a notion of rebellion that is alien to it).
Is it because of the Babylonian exile that Deutero-Isaiah tempered the expection of Proto-Isaiah, from "death will be swallowed up" to "death, but after a long, full life"? Also, it seems that another factor against the Society's "translation" of Isaiah 65:20 is that Hebrew parallelism is being employed, with "dies at a hundred years" being parallel to "falls short of a hundred" (so the NRSV). The NWT destroys this paralelism. Your thoughts?