One of you mentioned Ray Frantz had left behind clues, bold information within plain site. A "mine field" of data is suppose to be on the WT CD-ROM, what information where you talking about? My favorite book before I knew Ray was an Apostate, was the "James Book", it still is and I love the insights Ray wrote, that remain timeless about the letter of James.
What Are Some Of The Critical Items (Clues, Free Thinking) Ray Frantz Left Behind In Articles?
by Bubblegum Apotheosis 33 Replies latest watchtower bible
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Dogpatch
My memory indicates that Ed Dunlap wrote the Commentary on James book, which would escape the censor's clever eyes because it was so clearly Biblical. Yet if you read between the lines, the lack of mention of any two class system, plus the intimacy with a relationship with Christ, was what turned the GB red in the face. When an article based on the book was reviewed on one of our Monday night Bethel Watchtower studies, Grant Suiter was heading the discussion, and when it came to the ambiguous part that suggested there was only a heavenly calling, Suiter leaned forward with a very serious deep voice and said, "and brothers... we all know that this applies to WHOM?" You could hear a pin drop... the brother reading the text even stumbled on the answer.
I was scheduled to read that night, too, or I would not have even gone, they were normally so boring. At that time we were having our own secret Bible studies on Monday nights instead (we took WTs with us in case a spy knocked on the Bethel door of the private study). We were in several groups, actually unknownst to each other, who met in certain rooms to study the message of GRACE from Romans and Galatians... the letters of Paul that absolutely condemned the WT belief of Jesus' sacrifice PLUS WORKS as putting him back on the cross. Tom Cabeen introduced me to one group.
In other words, they were self-righteous Pharisees whose multitude of laws negated the message of Christ, condemning them to hell, while all the time they thought they were God's chosen, and that the Great Crowd must be kept down and realize that. The James book was the most obvious example of a good writer actually sneaking in "apostate" thoughts, at least according to the GB. The ironic part was that THEY were the real Pharisees, and still are by their recent demeaning of those who claim to be anointed.
It was a RIGHTEOUS MOMENT which I will never forget... I'd love to make a movie of it. You have NO IDEA how entertaining Bethel was (watching the Pharisees act like children) if you came to understand Paul's message. You had no fear of the old men anymore! And that REALLY pissed them off. Now I'm not fond of Paul, as he was too extreme in his lifestyle, but these are the best parts of the New Testament (especially Galatians) and the most obvious the product of one apostle. Read a paraphrased version of it and it will stand you hair on end. It set us all free from fear and guilt for the rest of our lives. An EXTREMELY POWERFUL meme. It is what has driven Christianity for 2000 years, and is so simple to the unindoctrinated. But even after years I only "got it" by reading the Living Bible, even though I had read the NWT complete three through times by then.
The language of the NWT almost intentionally destroys the power of Christ. And I'm responsible for printing millions of the old green Bibles. My God, what have I done? Our shortest run of Bibles was a million copies (in English). One time we had a run of five million. And all were castrated versions of the real thing.
After re-reading "The Four Presidents of the Watchtower" by Ed Gruss, I'm beginning to smell Freddy behind this. He was highly influenced in his interpretations (and was on the translating committee), but he got a LOT of information from the Jewish scholar that hung around him at Bethel all the time. Freddy was often seen listening to a cassette he carried around all the time, and it always baffled me. Was it some secret gnostic message? Illuminati crap?
Much later after leaving Bethel I realized it was probably the Jewish scholar. Obviously they did not accept the New Testament, and from re-listening to Freddy's talks lately, I really don't think Freddy understood Christianity at all. Even the old grumpy Knorr at least took to heart a lot of the NT. But he had to compromise because he had a big old organization to run. He liked Freddy (his only real male friend as far as I could tell) only because his novelty grew a crowd. Freddy was the circus clown, and Bethelites loved his "old preacher" shtick.
Sick!
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Bubblegum Apotheosis
Thank you Randy, I love your writing style and expertise in this subject, thank you for taking the time to post this information. Randy did Ed Dunlap write any books outside the Organization?
You said you were a "Special Pioneer" in San Luis Obispo in 1974, how small was the congregation and how far did you travel? From San Luis Obispo to Paso Robles or farther up, were the congregations in Santa Maria and San Luis Obispo the only ones? I live in San Luis Obispo, did you surf up here? Good Night, have to get up at 6am, later!
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Phizzy
Thanks Randy, if only R&F JW's who think that Bethel is their Vatican and the GB are angels in disguise would read your posts, and your site, they would get a rude awakening !
It is not surprising that many wake up when confronted with the reality of Bethel life, one lad I know, who still works there as far as I know, remarked after a short time there: "There is nothing spiritual there" (in Bethel).
His observation was spot on, but he did not wake up, as far as I know, perhaps he preferred it to coming home, his dad was a bit of a tyrant.
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Londo111
The events of 1980 seem so momentous…there SHOULD be a movie made out of it. I find reading these things faith inspiring. I feel nostalgic and I wasn't even there.
I'd also like to see a no-holds-barred movie on Rutherford's life story…something called Millions Now Living Will Never Die. The Mormons have a broadway show about them, why not JWs?
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Butterflyleia85
Awesome Randy! Thanks for sharing this I wondered the same thing.... I never guess Edward Dunlap did in writing because Ray Franz said in his book "Crisis of Conscience" page 5 that he was the major contributor to the organization's Bible dictionary (Aid to Bible Understanding [now titled Insight on the Scriptures}) and the writer of it's only Bible commentary (Commentary on the Letter of James). Then it goes on:
"He expressed his differences of viewpoint on certain teachings only in private converstation with friends of long standing."
"The Four Presidents of the Watchtower" by Ed Gruss, I'm beginning to smell Freddy behind this.
I would LOVE to learn more about Ed Gruss! I'm going to try and research any biography of him or maybe anything he said or wrote.
I found stuff on Edward Dunlap and it was very moving recording tape I heard of him. It made me cry because his ideas were the same ideas I held inside, deep down inside, I felt maybe my idea constaintly needed tuning and force certain ideas toward JW way of thinking. For example, control over how I dressed, coming to the elders with every aspect of my life if I felt I was being tempted by Satan, who I should date in the halls, and when, how much contact if any should I give the brother, etc. It was over welming and will I just felt like maybe I was being a rebel deep down inside. He made a comment that was very moving and I can't remember off hand and I wrote it down on my other computer. But let me tell ya it was such a blessing hearing his words.
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Dogpatch
If I ever get a grant of funds sufficient to make an internet movie of all that I personally experienced, I guarantee I will. I can script the whole thing, and get live testimonies of several oldtimers before they pass away. I have actors who will do it, and it would be viral on Youtube. It would be a lot cheaper than some big production to make nowadays, maybe about 20-30k to pay for equipment, actors, and props.
As has been noticed recently by some, anyone attempting a large budget movie (like $500,000 or more), is doomed to failure. No need for some big production, and the public has little interest. But I have all the contacts at my fingertips. If I hadn't taken over AJWRB and spent thousands on that, I might well have already begun.
The story needs to be preserved and scripted by eyewitnesses and performed by younger, cheeky actors and actresses. I have basically scripted the movie already!
Forget getting eyewitnesses to Rutherford, it's a shame, but giving it absolute cred now would be only by non-eyewitnesses as most are all dead. Will we let the Franz incident (1979) up to now go unmade in the annals of video?
I have a Hollywood videographer who is excellent, all the actors I need, and a Monty Python twist to make it entertaining. All that's needed is funding.
Randy
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james_woods
My favorite book before I knew Ray was an Apostate, was the "James Book", it still is and I love the insights Ray wrote, that remain timeless about the letter of James.
Yes, Ed Dunlap wrote the James book.
He did not put any sensational information there - what he did was to make a very strictly scriptural discussion of the material there IN CONTEXT. Basically, he did not expand the commentary into any of the nutbar JW stuff.
Ed told me that at one time he was hoping they would authorize such commentaries on all the NT books of the bible.
Which, of course, never came to be.
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diana netherton
Dogpatch...
Sign me up for an acting part. I'm in...would be fun. A musical would be hilarious!
Something to think about...
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Dogpatch
Thank you James... I know Ray mentioned he wrote the book, but since Ray and Ed were both "on the same page," it was likely a matter of collaboration. Tom Cabeen, one of ray's closest friends, told me while at Bethel that Ed wrote it. It makes little difference, they both thought the same way. But I think Ray was a little too scared of repercussions at the time from being so bold... it would have been combed over with a magnifying glass. Ed was not so much of a suspect and like me, he was an okie who couldn't stand to see leaders lie without exposing them.
In my opinion, he had more balls than Ray. Ray was at times very cautious at what he said, sounding almost scripted at times. Dunlap wouldn't put up with any crap for a minute. But both were great men in their own rights.
Randy
Ed Dunlap speaks:
