Jesus, Jacob, Moses and those worthies, are they of the anointed, or what are they?

dgp

I apologize if this is dumb and very basic, but, Jesus, Jacob, Moses, et cetera (all the "ancient worthies") are of the anointed, or what are they?

WTWizard

Jacob and Moses were not "anointed" according to the Washtowel, but Jesus was. That is, assuming you can believe anything in the Bible as fact.

dgp

That is what I believed. So, is Moses less important to Jehovah than brother Rutherford?

exwhyzee

If they didn't drink wine at a Kingdom Hall, they can't go to heaven. the 144,000 didn't start being gathered till Charles Taze Russell gave the go ahead.

designs

Its 144,001 very important, there will be a test.

The WTS teaches that the anointing or calling to heaven did not start until after the death of Jesus and his "presenting his sacrifice to God in heaven and it being accepted." That is why Jesus said the least one in heaven was higher than John the Baptist who died before that. That is why the holy spirit was not poured out on Christians until Pentecost 33 C.E. per the WTS.

But numerous times the WTS labeled the patriarchs before Jesus' resurrection as "the ancient worthies" and said they would be resurrected immediately after Armaggedon as perfect humans (the rest would not be so until the end of the 1,000 year reign) and rule over the earth from Jerusalem.

Seventy jubilees of fifty years each would be a total of 3500 years. That period of time beginning 1575 before A.D. 1 of necessity would end in the fall of the year 1925, at which time the type ends and the great antitype must begin. What, then, should we expect to take place? The chief thing to be restored is the human race to life; and since other Scriptures definitely fix the fact that there will be a resurrection of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and other faithful ones of old, and that these will have the first favour, we may expect 1925 to witness the return of these faithful men of Israel from the condition of death, being resurrected and fully restored to perfect humanity and made the visible, legal representatives of the new order of things on earth." Millions Now Living Will Never Die p.88 "The year 1926 would therefore begin about October first, 1925. We should, therefore, expect shortly after 1925 to see the awakening of Abel, Enoch, Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Melchisedec, Job, Moses, Samuel, David, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Daniel, John the Baptist, and others mentioned in the eleventh chapter of Hebrews. ... No doubt many boys and girls who read this book will live to see Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, Daniel, and those other men of old come forth in the glory of their better resurrection, of perfect in mind and body. It will not take long for Christ to appoint them to their post of honor and authority as his earthly representatives. The world and all the present conveniences will seen strange to them at first, but they will soon become accustomed to the new methods. They may have some amusing experiences at first; for they never saw telephones, radios, automobiles, electric lights, aeroplanes, steam engines, and many other things so familiar to us." The Way to Paradise (1924) pp.224,226

Diest

XYZ the annointing didnt begin until 33CE. John the Baptist was one of the only people close to Jesus who didnt make it to heaven.....In that myth

dgp

Question. I never learned the Bible that well, but I understand Saul and David were anointed by Samuel. Are they of the anointed, in Watchtower terms? Apparently no. What are they, then?

I would think that anointing someone with oil, directly dispensed by Samuel, would be more of an anointing - and certainly more reliable an anointing- than just feeling the calling.

Now, where would Jeremiah be in all this? Elijah? Elisha? Solomon?

I would think that someone YHWH takes the time to anoint is more important in His eyes than someone who never gets the anointing. But then, what do we mean by anointing?

blondie

The anointing is with holy spirit, for Jesus and his followers, not oil.................ergo, the pouring out of holy spirit at Pentecost 33 C.E. about 50 days after the Passover. Jesus was never anointed with oil although he was the Messiah, but he was anointed with holy spirit at his baptism in 29 C.E. Prior to that people were anointed with oil.

(Acts 2:1-4) . . .Now while the day of the [festival of] Pentecost was in progress they were all together at the same place, 2 and suddenly there occurred from heaven a noise just like that of a rushing stiff breeze, and it filled the whole house in which they were sitting. 3 And tongues as if of fire became visible to them and were distributed about, and one sat upon each one of them, 4 and they all became filled with holy spirit and started to speak with different tongues, just as the spirit was granting them to make utterance.

(2 Corinthians 1:21, 22) 21 But he who guarantees that YOU and we belong to Christ and he who has anointed us is God. 22 He has also put his seal upon us and has given us the token of what is to come, that is, the spirit, in our hearts.

(Just reporting not supporting)

dgp

Thank you, Blondie

Now, please don't think I'm kidding you, but, on the basis of what you say, I understand that "anointment", then, means "with the holy spirit", with no capital letters. Saul and David were anointed, but in another sense; anointed with oil, which we must understand not to be as valuable as anointment with the holy spirit, despite the fact that Saul and David were chosen to lead the Israelites, God's chosen people.

Would Saul and David make it to the Governing Body? No, because they were not anointed. Well, yes, because some of the members of the Governing Body are not anointed and made it to it, anyways. But, all things considered, while the Watchtower is a society and a corporation, David was the real thing: he had a theocracy, and not in figurative terms. Whatever David said, that was the law. That sounds like a lot more than sitting around a conference table in Brooklyn and having one vote among many.

I still think that Jeremiah and Elijah and Elisha, Samson, all those guys somehow have to be more important than Rutherford, for example. Or Daniel, the happy medium / means YHWH chose to tell us about the basis of the count of times.

For some reason, I feel that this anointment thing does not stand on its feet, not even if you're a firm believer in the Watchtower.

And I keep having the feeling that, if I were a Jew of Jesus' time, I would put faith on a shepherd who became King and was anointed with oil by Samuel, and wouldn't put my faith on some carpenter claiming he is the Son of God and the heir of the House of David.

Jesus, Jacob, Moses and those worthies, are they of the anointed, or what are they?

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