Prayer, Pascal, and the Anthropic Principle

by JosephAlward 37 Replies latest watchtower bible

• 

  LittleToe

  Sorry to quote the NWT, however:

  Romans 1:20 - For his invisible [qualities] are clearly seen from the world's creation onward, because they are perceived by the things made, even his eternal power and Godship, so that they are inexcusable;

  I've got to go with Pascal and personal experience, on this one.
  The context of this passage, showing Paul's argument, is even more revealing, but I'm not going to post the whole thing here.

  Regardless of which name one might attribute to the Creator, I would have thought it fairly fundamental to acknowledge that there is a creator. I think that you will find this at the heart of most belief systems.
  Subjective science can neither prove nor disprove the supernatural.
  Theology, etc., is (at worst) an attempt to explain it.
  Whether-or-not an individual finds that too primitive for their level of sophistication, I couldn't say.

  What I do know is that daddy loves His kids.
• 

  stocwach

  funkyderek:

  Thanks for being the first person to point out my obviously planned error. You win the prize, but unfortunately I was hoping I got the rebuttal out of REM first.

  Since you brought up Osiris, we'll use it for the purpose of my point:
  why does the ENTIRE world subscribe to the Christian calendear (B.C.--Before Christ) or B.C.E.(Before Common/Christian era)? Why not B.O--Before Osiris. Think about the significance of something as simple as a calendar. Why is it Christian based? Because no figure in history, no matter how far back you date a manuscript, has had an impact like Christ, whether directly (you believe in Christ and worship him)or indirectly (calender, celebrate Christmas, etc. despite being atheistic).

  Thanks for playing into my hand.
• 

  expatbrit

  Stocwatch:

  The world uses BC and AD because European culture has been globally dominant for the past 500 years, and the Europeans use this system.

  Thus it is not because of any "impact" by Christ that we use this measurement of time, but because of the political and geographical dominance of those who claim to follow him.

  If the Chinese had taken the decision to explore the world before the Europeans (as they were capable of doing), we would all now be using the Chinese system of dating.

  Eventually, when a non-European or European derived culture assumes the dominance of global society, we will all change to their dating system, based on whichever historical personage they consider to be the most significant.

  Expatbrit
• 

  funkyderek

  why does the ENTIRE world subscribe to the Christian calendear?

  Because in what we nor refer to as 310 AD (or CE) Constantine made Christianity the official religion of the Roman Empire. the sixth century a monk named Dionysius incorrectly placed the birth of Christ at the end of 1 BC (although the term BC wasn't used at the time). The counting system was eventually adopted by the church, and by extension the Western world. (A common system of dating became extremely important as people travelled more.) Non-Christian countries began using it for convenience.
  There's more to it than that, but that's the general gist.

  We may use the date of the birth of Jesus for our year, but we use other gods and historical figures for our days and months. Is that significant as anything other than a historical accident?

  Thanks for playing into my hand.

  Whatever. You probably foresaw this rebuttal too, let me know when you get to the point.

  --
  "Theology is never any help; it is searching in a dark cellar at midnight for a black cat that isn't there. Theologians can persuade themselves of anything." -Robert A. Heinlein
• 

  JosephAlward

  Little Toe writes,

  I would have thought it fairly fundamental to acknowledge that there is a creator

  If one can believe that the universe was created by something that has always existed--a god, why not instead imagine that the universe was not created and that it always existed?

  Joseph F. Alward
  "Skeptical Views of Christianity and the Bible"

  * http://members.aol.com/jalw/joseph_alward.html
• 

  heathen

  Which came first the chicken or the egg
• 

  rem

  Stockwach,

  Nice to see your ignorant ramblings are being thoroughly trounced in my absence. Is that the best you have?

  Normally I would not take such a confrontational tone, but your pride in your ignorance is just astonishing.

  Point by point, each of your "arguments" have been defeated. Got anything else up your sleeve?

  rem

  "We all do no end of feeling, and we mistake it for thinking." - Mark Twain
• 

  stocwach

  Rem,

  I see how you really are now. I have given you specific examples of how the universe was designed for life, and proven you don't know the half of the anthropic principle. I have also pointed out that you lied in an earlier post. I have given you a rebuttal of Pascal's wager, which you simply cannot provide a rational answer to. In cowardly and ignorant fashion, you have chosen simply to ignore my posts.

  Congratulations on being one up on me though in the insult category. I hope it makes you proud. I'll stick with facts and legitimate reasoning over that any day.
• 

  LittleToe

  Joseph:

  why not instead imagine that the universe was not created and that it always existed?

  Sorry - maybe I slipped a gear, but I thought that the majority of scientists were of the consensus that the universe had not always existed? Is that not the premise of the "big bang theory"?
  That being the case, why should I have to imagine and dream up stuff like that?

  Respectfully, yours,
  LT.
• 

  ianao

  stocwach said: Thanks for being the first person to point out my obviously planned error. You win the prize, but unfortunately I was hoping I got the rebuttal out of REM first.

  Readers should take note of the tactic employed by the creationist and other dishonest "intellectuals". Note how stocwach is now distraught over the lack of a continued "debate" with Rem. Why? Because now stocwach cannot work with Rem on an individual basis and play on Rem's inability to regurgitate everything she has ever read on a givin subject that gives Rem the viewpoint he/she currently carries. The hope for stocwach is that Rem's possible ignorance in one area will hide stocwach's own ignorance in the matters discussed.