Wezz im sending you a PM
My Experience
by wezz 33 Replies latest jw experiences
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Ding
Welcome!
How long ago was it that she left you?
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jamiebowers
I see it's been 24 hours since your first and only post...hopefully that's good news,and you two are reconciling. Whether or not that is the case, please get an attorney asap. He or she will help you consider your options about staying in the marriage or divorce by educating you on child custody and support. The sooner you get on this, the more chance you have of gaining joint custody. Doing so is vital for the future of your children regarding the blood issue, education, and extra curricular activities.
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wezz
Hi All,
Firstly, thanks for all the replies, it really is encouraging.
MickeyMouse and RayPublisher, thanks for the PM. I will respond as soon as I figure it out.
Blacksheep, the questioning technique sure seems to work. Even though I have not had any vocal response, asking questions like the flip flop on organ transplants and “what is your feeling on failed prophecy” sure displays very telling body language. I will continue to use this technique.
Lozhasleft, you called it correctly and she has definitely gone into premature shock. Believe it or not, the elders advised her to take things easy. Kindness and love are most definitely the only way. Also patience and calmness helps a lot.
Bromac, if you are in the same position than I am in, don’t follow my example. As Black sheep mentioned, questions are the way to go. Not too many though, as this will have the same response as confessing all you believe.
Discreetslave, I actually told her that the day I spoke to her. Later one of my family members were told that I want to force my opinion on my wife and that she is scared of her spiritual wellbeing. That off course was a total lie and I reaffirmed my position to my wife regarding this. Regarding the spiritual weakness, I am playing that card to an extent. The elder wants me to pose my questions and they will answer accordingly. I will most definitely need to be shrewd and careful in this.
Momma-tossed-me, I am sorry to hear about your situation. Hopefully mine does not follow the same course. Did you also go the confess all route?
Quandry, she did not exactly come to me all by herself. I approached her. Still, you are right about the feelings for an unbeliever being against the rules. As one associates more with witnesses, you come to realize that many break certain rules. Entertainment, studying and many more. Im not judging, just saying that under it all, they sometimes tend to be ‘normal’ on certain things. When one notices such ‘weaknesses’, one could use them to ‘make contact’ with their real personality.
Yourmomma, even though the elders seem to have advised against this for now, they probably believe I can still be ‘saved’. I will allow them to think so for now, because it buys me time and relieves the stress two months before the birth of my son.
OnTheWayOut, many of the stories here are definitely helpful. It’s true what you say about divorce. The elders, discussing our marriage, mentioned how the two flesh will become one. I decided to add to their encouragement and advice mentioning that what God has yoked together, let NO MAN put apart. I don’t know if they got what I was actually saying.
NVR2L8, for now things are calm, but if things do go that way again, you are right about other/professional help. I actually did tell her that my love for her is unconditional.
Wannabefree, pretty much my situation now.
Outsmartthesystem, I wish you well in that.
Yesidid, I was definitely shocked that it happened so quick. On the other hand, I tend to be calm and collected when facing problems, so maybe this helped in my case. Yes, there are occasionally a few marital problems, but then again I suppose all newlyweds go through this. I think all problems are sorted.
Londo111, thank you. I’ll be saving that quote. Information in their own magazine…
Ding, about 12 hours before my first post. By the time you posted she was back though.
Jamiebowers, that is exactly the case. Considering the attorney, my ‘worldly’ sister and my Brother in law are both attorneys, so that helps. I already spoke to their child support attorney to enlighten myself on the subject.
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So basically, yesterday my wife asked if we could go somewhere for coffee to which I agreed. The subject obviously changed to my disbelief, and so I used the questioning method. I asked things like, how do you personally feel about date setting and the events not being fulfilled? How do you feel about organ transplants being banned for a while and what do you think the victims feel? Why do you think someone would quote sources to support their theories but they don’t quote the whole sentence? What would you think if any other organization did this?
Every time a bond is created, it is quickly cut off by reasoning such as, “this is God’s organization”, “to where will one go”, “God has always had an organization – be it kingdoms or physical organizations”. On the last question I then asked her to explain who that was at certain time intervals.
While we were speaking an elder phoned me and asked for a meeting. I was hesitant at first, but thought I could use this to ‘slow things down’. I had not intended to bombard my wife with this information in the first place and especially not before the birth of my son. Later the day when I phoned my wife to tell her I would pick up my daughter after the meeting, she told me to pick them both up – basically that she was coming home.
So I met with the two elders and they told me that questioning was normal and that I should pose my questions to them over a period of time so that they can research and answer me. This obviously gives me a lot of time. They went on babbling about how great the Bible and the prophecies were and the mentioned Daniel. They also read from chapter 12 where Daniel is said to seal up the book etc. They also mentioned the formula of a day for a year and how this was used to calculate prophecies. When reading, they also read the one thousand two hundred and ninety days and one thousand three hundred and thirty-five days.
I asked them, “does the formula of a day for a year work for all the prophecies like the two you just read”, to which after some confusion he answered yes!(wrong) I asked him how many prophecies in Daniel had a double fulfillment. After a long time he said the one of seven times (obviously).
I also asked why 1 Thessalonians 4:16 uses the Lord to reference to Jesus, and the footnote says Jehovah (this is used to explain why Jesus is Michael). He was not aware of this.
Shortly after this the meeting ended with the request that I compile my questions one for one, and they will then get back to me. Fun times indeed!
Thanks again to all for the kind words of welcome and encouragement, I will keep you updated.
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Black Sheep
You seem to be on to some of their tricks Wezz.
One question at a time is very good. Overload is very bad. Don't give them a list. If you do, they will cherry pick anything you said that is slightly wrong and slur your character for asking.
They said to give yourself time, don't let them forget it.
These dudes are experts at answering questions that you didn't ask, so every time they answer you ..... pause .... ask yourself ..... did they really answer the question that I asked? If they didn't, carefully ask them/her questions that highlight the subterfuge and make them feel guilty for whatever tactic they used to fool you, divert you from your question, whatever.
Remember that you cannot be guilty of deception for asking a question. They can be guilty of deception for a dishonest reply. Force them to be dishonest, then make them pay.
Slowly, slowly catchy monkey
Chris
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Mickey mouse
Every time a bond is created, it is quickly cut off by reasoning such as, “this is God’s organization”, “to where will one go”, “God has always had an organization – be it kingdoms or physical organizations”.
These are exactly the things my husband kept saying when I first spoke to him. These are thought stoppers. It may seem as though what you're saying isn't going in but it is; the key is to ask questions and know when to back off and let her think. I went through this process with my husband and continued attending meetings with him. It took months but in the end the questions combined with what he was seeing and hearing first hand at the hall woke him up; he's out now too.
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yesidid
Later the day when I phoned my wife to tell her I would pick up my daughter after the meeting, she told me to pick them both up – basically that she was coming home.
Wonderful! Just Wonderful.
She missed you! Loving, thoughtful husbands are hard to find.
Just keep on being loving and she is yours forever.
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OnTheWayOut
It is great that she came back home. You gave her much to think about. Consider letting that rest for awhile. Let her see that you are not about "getting her out" even if you are about that. Go do your homework- read and learn.
I was one of the elders, and I can confidently say that they don't have the answers to your questions. Details like the ones you ask about are not what got us there. It was ass-kissing never questioning the Watchtower. You will eventually have to either stop meeting with them or expect to be kicked out of the WTS. Focus on being there for your kids and being there for your wife. I would tell the elders that I met with them, thank you very much, but I am fine on my own now. But that's me.
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Witness My Fury
1Thes 4:16 footnote... well well well, you learn something new every day.
I wish you well in your efforts...
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wannabefree
Another footnote to look at ...
(1 Peter 3:15) But sanctify the Christ as Lord* in YOUR hearts, always ready to make a defense before everyone that demands of YOU a reason for the hope in YOU, but doing so together with a mild temper and deep respect.
* "The Christ as Lord," ?ABC; TR, "the Lord God"; J7,8,11-14,16,17,24, "Jehovah God."
Key to Translations footnote is referring to:
TR Textus Receptus (Received Text) of G.S., by R. Stephanus, 1550.
J7 Christian Greek Scriptures in 12 languages, including Heb., by Elias Hutter, Nuremberg, 1599.
J8 Christian Greek Scriptures, Heb., by William Robertson, London, 1661.
J11 Christian Greek Scriptures, Heb., by Thomas Fry and others, London, 1817.
J12 Christian Greek Scriptures, Heb., by William Greenfield, London, 1831.
J13 Christian Greek Scriptures, Heb., by A. McCaul, M. S. Alexander, J. C. Reichardt and S. Hoga, London, 1838.
J14 Christian Greek Scriptures, Heb., by J. C. Reichardt, London, 1846.
J16 Christian Greek Scriptures, Heb., by J. C. Reichardt and J. H. R. Biesenthal, London, 1866.
J17 Christian Greek Scriptures, Heb., by Franz Delitzsch, London, 1981 ed.
J24 A Literal Translation of the New Testament . . . From the Text of the Vatican Manuscript, by Herman Heinfetter, London, 1863.