Comments You Will Not Hear at the 03-04-2012 WT Study (JANUARY 15, 2012, pages 4-8)(GOD’S WORD)
Review comments will be headed by COMMENTS
WT material from today's WT will be in black
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g = Awake
jv = Proclaimers book
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TRUE CHRISTIANS
RESPECT GOD’S
WORD
“Your word is truth.” —JOHN 17:17.
OPENING COMMENTS
START OF ARTICLE
LOOK FOR THESE POINTS:
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
How did a meeting that was
held in Jerusalem in 49 C.E.
contrast with subsequent
church councils?
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Who were some champions of
God’s Word who lived during
the Middle Ages?
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
What method for Bible study
was used by faithful Christians
in the late 1800’s, and why
was it effective?
1. From personal experience, name one important respect in
which Jehovah’s Witnesses are different from other religious
groups .
THINK about the first time you had a meaningful
discussion with one of Jehovah’s Witnesses.
What do you remember about it? Many
would reply, ‘I was impressed by the fact that the
Witness used the Bible to answer all my questions.’
How delighted we were to discover God’s purpose
for the earth, what happens when we die, and what
the future holds for our dead loved ones!
COMMENTS
So do jws pull out the bible or a WT publication to answer questions? Do they read the verses from the bible itself or a quote from the publication?
A CO once told the pioneers to have the publications in hand, not the bible because it would put people off.
And it is typical that jws are told to zero in on problems in people’s lives, death in the family, illness, financial problems…
2. What are some of the reasons why you came to appreciate
the Bible?
2 As we studied further, however, we realized that
the Bible does much more than answer our questions
about life, death, and the future. We came to
appreciate that the Bible is the most practical book
in the world. Its counsel is timeless, and those who
carefully follow it will lead successful and happy
lives. (Read Psalm 1:1-3.) Genuine Christians have
always accepted the Bible, “not as the word of men,
but, just as it truthfully is, as the word of God.”
(1 Thess. 2:13) A brief historical review will highlight
the contrast between those who truly respect
God’s Word and those who do not.
COMMENTS
Do people study with jws or learn to repeat the words from the paragraph?
Genuine Christians = only jws, all others are “so-called” or “professed”
The Bible has good advice about multiple wives. And how to determine a woman’s unfaithfulness by splashing water on her thigh. (What about the man?)
Numbers 5:27
NIV: If she has defiled herself and been unfaithful to her husband, then when she is made to drink the water that brings a curse, it will go into her and cause bitter suffering; her abdomen will swell and her thigh waste away, and she will become accursed among her people.
A THORNY ISSUE IS SETTLED
3. What issue threatened the unity of the first-century Christian
congregation, and what was at stake?
3 During the 13 years that followed the anointing
of the first uncircumcised Gentile, Cornelius, an issue
arose that threatened the unity of the Christian
congregation. Growing numbers of Gentiles were
embracing the Christian faith . The question was,
Should the men be circumcised according to the
Jewish custom before presenting themselves
for baptism? That was not an easy
question for a Jew to answer. Jews who
observed the Law would not even enter
a Gentile’s home, let alone enjoy warm
fellowship with one. Jewish Christians
were already severely persecuted for
abandoning their former religion. If they
went so far as to welcome uncircumcised
Gentiles into their midst, it would
only widen the rift between practicing
Jews and the Christians and expose the
latter to further reproach.—Gal. 2:11-14.
COMMENTS
Cornelius and his household were anointed with holy spirit before baptism…why? These men were not circumcised so why the question 14 years later with Paul?
Why are jws not baptized “in the name of the Father, the Son, and the holy spirit as Matthew 28:19 says? Why in the name of a spirit-directed organization?
Why after settling the circumcision question, did Paul have Timothy circumcised by not Titus?
Did Jesus enter the house of any gentile? Did he have fellowship with any gentiles?
4. Who were called upon to resolve the issue,
and in this regard, what questions could have
arisen in the minds of onlookers?
4 In 49 C.E., the apostles and older
men in Jerusalem, themselves circumcised
Jews, “gathered together to see
about this affair.” (Acts 15:6) What followed
was, not a mind-numbing theological
debate over dry technicalities ,
but a lively doctrinal discussion. Strong
opinions were expressed on both sides
of the issue. Would personal preferences
or prejudices rule the day ? Would
the responsible older men postpone the
decision until the religious climate in Israel
improved for them? Or would some
sort of compromise be worked out, with
advocates on each side modifying their
position u ntil a consensus of sorts was
reached? (BLOOD BULGARIA)
COMMENTS
How many elders and ex-elders know of the mind-numbing elders meetings and elder schools?
Or the elder who told the body, “it’s my way or the highway.”
Read below how the WTS compromised about the blood issue in Bulgaria.
http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/bulgaria-blood-transfusions.php
5. In what important ways did the meeting in
Jerusalem in 49 C.E. differ from church councils
held in later centuries?
5 Compromise and lobbying are common
at church councils today. However,
at that meeting in Jerusalem, there was
no compromise; nor did any lobbying
for votes take place. What is more, a
unanimous decision was reached. How
could that be? As strongly as each participant
felt about his point of view, all
present respected God’s Word,
and those
holy writings held the key to resolving
the issue.—Read Psalm 119:97-101.
COMMENTS
Lobbying in the elders meetings; or the GB in New York.
A new elder came prepared with scriptures to discuss an issue. He was told to put the bible away, they already knew all that, and the elder’s manual was the basis of what they discussed.
Unanimous or 2/3 votes on the GB?
"At a session three weeks later, April 30 [1975], President Knorr surprised us by making a motion that thenceforth all matters be decided by a two-thirds vote of the active membership (which by then numbered seventeen)." Raymond Franz, Crisis of Conscience (Commentary Press Fourth Edition 2004) p.85.
http://www.jwfacts.com/pdf/two-third-majority.pdf
6, 7. How were the Scriptures used to settle
the circumcision issue?
6 The passage that helped settle the
matter was Amos 9:11, 12. As quoted at
Acts 15:16, 17, it reads: “I shall return
and rebuild the booth of David that is
fallen down; and I shall rebuild its ruins
and erect it again, in order that those who
remain of the men may earnestly seek Jehovah,
together with people of all the nations,
people who are called by my name ,
says Jehovah.”
COMMENTS
How many jws know that Russell believed that these prophecies would be fulfilled on literal Jews?
7 ‘But wait,’ someone may object,
‘that text does not say that it was unnecessary
for Gentile believers to be circumcised. ’
That is true; however, Jewish
Christians would have got the point.
They did not consider circumcised Gentiles
as ‘people of the nations’ but as
brothers. (Ex. 12:48, 49) For example, according
to Bagster’s version of the Septuagint,
Esther 8:17 reads: “Many of the
Gentiles were circumcised, and became
Jews.” Thus, when the Scriptures foretold
that those remaining of the house of
Israel (Jews and circumcised Jewish
proselytes) together with “people of all
the nations” (uncircumcised Gentiles)
would become one people for God’s
name, the message was clear . Circumcision
was not required of Gentiles who
wanted to become Christians.
COMMENTS
Bagster’s Septuagint
Who is Bagster and why does the WTS choose this source?
What does the WTS consider “godfearers”?
So James still regarded uncircumcised Gentile Christians as Godfearers, and the stipulations in Acts 15 were likely not viewed as "recommendations" but more like the bare minimum that Gentiles were expected to observe. (Leiolaia)
http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/218273/1/Acts-15-29-Revelation-2-14-20
8. What role did courage play in the decision
that was made?
8 God’s Word and his spirit led those
sincere Christians to “a unanimous accord.” (2/3 VOTE)
(Acts 15:25) Even though the decision would
likely expose Jewish Christians
to more persecution, faithful ones
lent their full support to the Bible-based
decision.—Acts 16:4, 5.
COMMENTS
The WTS is setting the foundation for jws to give FULL SUPPORT to the GB so-called bible-based decisions: Sodom and Gomorrah to be resurrected (yes, no, yes, no…; superior authorities, secular governments then God and Jesus then secular governments; organ transplants, yes, no yes.
Bible-based or manipulated—see at the end of the comments
A MARKED CONTRAST
9. What is one important factor that led to the
defilement of true worship, and what significant
doctrine came to the fore?
9 The apostle Paul foretold that after
the death of the apostles, the Christian
faith would be contaminated by false
teachings. (Read 2 Thessalonians 2:3, 7.)
Among those who would not put up
with “the healthful teaching” were some
in responsible positions. (2 Tim. 4:3)
Paul warned elders in his day: “From
among you yourselves men will rise and
speak twisted things to draw away the
disciples after themselves.” (Acts 20:
30) The New Encyclopædia Britannica describes
one major factor that led to twisted
reasoning: “Christians who had some
training in Greek philosophy began to
feel the need to express their faith in
its terms, both for their own intellectual
satisfaction and in order to convert educated
pagans.” An important doctrine
that was given a pagan twist had to do
with the identity of Jesus Christ. The Bible
calls him the Son of God; the lovers
of Greek philosophy insisted that he is
God.
COMMENTS
Was it AFTER or had the contamination already started per the WTS? Already at work when Paul was alive but John died long after Paul.
“some in responsible positions” does this mean that elders today are proving to be a thorn in the WTS side?
Greek philosophy = higher education
10. How could the issue of Christ’s identity
have been settled?
10 The question was debated at a number
of church councils. The issue could
have been settled quite easily had the
delegates given appropriate weight to
the Scriptures , but most did not. In fact,
the majority had made up their minds
even before they arrived at the councils,
and they left more deeply entrenched
than ever in their positions. The canons
and declarations that resulted from
these meetings hardly even referred to
the Scriptures.
COMMENTS
So has it been your experience that the WTS always has a scripture to base its doctrine on? This is considered grounds for df’ing in the elders manual yet no scripture is cited, not a one. Somehow staying overnight unchaperoned equals sex took place; during the day sex did not take place.
- stayed all night in the same house with a person of the opposite sex (or in the same house with a known homosexual) under improper circumstances
I wonder how many jws can name one scripture without checking a WT publication when asked why they believe.
*** w98 3/15 p. 19 ***
In order to avoid misunderstandings, Jehovah’s Witnesses try to be careful about how they express themselves. Instead of saying, “the Society teaches” many Witnesses prefer to use such expressions as, “the Bible says” or, “I understand the Bible to teach.”
11. What weight was given to the authority of
the so-called Church Fathers, and why so?
11 Why were the Scriptures not more
thoroughly considered? Scholar Charles
Freeman answers that those who believed
that Jesus is God “found it difficult
to refute the many sayings of Jesus
that suggested he was subordinate to
God the Father.” As a result, church tradition
and opinions of later authorities
were substituted for the Gospels. To this
day, many of the clergy elevate the uninspired
sayings of so-called Church Fathers
to a plane higher than the Word of
God! If you have ever discussed the Trinity
doctrine with a seminarian, you have
likely noticed that.
COMMENTS
Who is Charles Freeman? Do his other beliefs agree with the WTS?
12. What negative influence was exercised by
the emperor?
12 A notable feature of the debates at
those councils was the interference of
the Roman emperors. In this regard, Professor
Richard E. Rubenstein wrote respecting
the Council of Nicaea: “Constantine
had favored and enriched [the
bishops] beyond their wildest dreams . In
less than a year, the new emperor had
returned or rebuilt virtually all their
churches, given them back the jobs and
honors taken from them . . . He had
accorded Christian clergymen privileges
formerly granted to pagan priests .” As
a result, “Constantine was in a position
strongly to influence—perhaps even to
dictate—the course of events at Nicaea.”
Charles Freeman confirmed: “The precedent
had now been set that the emperor
might intervene not only to strengthen
the Church but to influence doctrine.”
—Read James 4:4.
COMMENTS
Can individual jws disagree with the WTS when they see that beliefs are not scripturally based?
13. What factors, do you think, influenced
church leaders of later centuries to ignore the
Bible’s plain teachings?
13 While church dignitaries found it
difficult to determine the exact identity
of Jesus Christ, many of the common
people had no such problem . Since they
were not interested in lining their purses
with the emperor’s gold or in furthering
their careers in the church hierarchy,
they were able to view matters more objectively,
in the light of the Scriptures.
And by all accounts, they did. A theologian
of the period, Gregory of Nyssa,
made this derisive comment regarding
the common people: “Clothes
dealers, money changers, and grocers
are all theologians. If you inquire about
the value of your money, some philosopher
explains wherein the Son differs
from the Father. If you ask the price of
bread, your answer is the Father is greater
than the Son . If you should want to
know whether the bath is ready, you get
the pronouncement that the Son was
created out of nothing.” Yes, unlike the
members of the hierarchy, many of the
common people were supporting their
conclusions by using God’s Word . Gregory
and his associates would have done
well to listen to them!
COMMENTS
Hasn’t the WTS found it difficult to determine if the people of Sodom and Gomorrah will be resurrected; who the “superior authorities” are; whether jws can have an organ transplant or not…..
So Cos and DOs are not guilty of the “green handshake” which elders use to buy influence to further their career?
http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/scandals/165825/1/Did-you-ever-get-a-green-handshake
“WHEAT” AND “WEEDS” GROW TOGETHER
14. Why can we conclude that from the first
century onward, there must always have been
some genuine anointed Christians on earth?
14 In a parable, Jesus indicated that
from the first century onward, there
would always be some genuine anointed
Christians on the earth. He compared
them to “wheat” growing among
“weeds.” (Matt. 13:30) Of course, we
cannot say for certain which individuals
or groups belonged to the anointed
wheat class, but we can confirm that
there have always been some who have
courageously defended God’s Word
and exposed the church’s unscriptural
teachings. Let us consider a few examples.
COMMENTS
So who were the anointed between 100 and 1879? Notice how the WTS talks out of both sides of their mouth…can’t say for sure who individuals or groups are but there were individuals or groups, totally unrecognizable though.
15, 16. Name some who showed respect for
God’s Word.
15 Archbishop Agobard of Lyons,
France (779-840 C.E.), spoke out against
image worship, churches dedicated to
saints, and the church’s unscriptural liturgies
and practices. One of his contemporaries,
Bishop Claudius, also rejected
church tradition and objected to prayers
to saints and the veneration of relics. In
the 11th century, Archdeacon Berengarius
of Tours, France, was excommunicated
for rejecting the Catholic teaching
of transubstantiation. Moreover, he held
that the Bible is superior to church tradition.
COMMENTS
So are they saying these men were anointed? Maybe, maybe not…….
Waldo Wycliffe Tyndale Grew Storrs
16 The 12th century saw the arrival of
two lovers of Bible truth, Peter of Bruys
and Henry of Lausanne . Peter resigned
from the priesthood because he could
not reconcile with the Scriptures the
Catholic teachings of infant baptism,
transubstantiation, prayers for the dead,
and worship of the cross. In 1140, Peter
paid for his beliefs with his life. Henry,
a monk, spoke out against corrupt practices
in the church as well as the unscriptural
aspects of church liturgy . He
was arrested in 1148 and spent the rest
of his life in prison.
COMMENTS
So these men also maybe were, maybe not anointed………
Children as young as 5 have been baptized as jws….but somehow not considered “infants”
17. What important steps were taken byword
and his followers?
17 About the time that Peter of Bruys
was burned alive for daring to criticize
the church, a person was born who
would later have a powerful influence on
the spread of Bible truth. His last name
was Valdes, or Waldo.* Unlike Peter of
Bruys and Henry of Lausanne, he was
a layman, but he valued God’s Word so
much that he divested himself of his material
goods and arranged for portions of
the Bible to be translated into a language
commonly spoken in southeastern
France . Some were so thrilled to hear
the Bible’s message in their own tongue
that they too gave up their belongings
and devoted their lives to sharing Bible
truth with others . The church found this
deeply disturbing. In 1184 these zealous
men and women, later called the Waldenses,
were excommunicated by the
pope and banished from their homes by
the bishop. This action actually served
to spread the Bible’s message to other
areas. Eventually, the followers of Waldo,
Peter of Bruys, and Henry of Lausanne
as well as other dissenters could
be found in many parts of Europe. Other
champions of Bible truth rose up in
the centuries that followed: John Wycliffe
(c. 1330-1384), William Tyndale
(c. 1494-1536), Henry Grew (1781-1862),
and George Storrs (1796-1879).
*Valdes has sometimes been called Pierre Valdes
or Peter Waldo, but his first name cannot be confirmed.
COMMENTS
And these were not identified either as anointed…
George Storrs was a mentor and friend of Charles Taze Russell, yet Storrs never became a Bible Student. Russell conducted his funeral. Could Storrs be considered anointed if he never joined with Russell?
*** w00 10/15 pp.29-30***
George Storrs likewise did not have a correct understanding of some important points. He was able to see falsehoods promoted by the clergy, but sometimes he went to the opposite extreme. For example, apparently overreacting to the orthodox clergy’s view of Satan, Storrs rejected the idea of the Devil as an actual person. He rejected the Trinity; yet, he was uncertain until shortly before his death as to whether the holy spirit was a person. While George Storrs expected that Christ’s return would originally be invisible, he thought that eventually there would be a visible appearing. Nonetheless, it seems that both men were honesthearted and sincere, and they came far closer to the truth than most.
“THE WORD OF GOD IS NOT BOUND”
18. Explain the method of Bible study used by
sincere Bible students in the 19th century and
why it was effective.
18 Try as they might, enemies of Bible
truth have been unable to prevent its
spread. “The word of God is not bound,”
says 2 Timothy 2:9. In 1870 a group of
sincere Bible students began searching
for the truth. Their method of study?
Someone would raise a question. They
would discuss it. They would look up
all related scriptures on the point, and
then, when they were satisfied with
the harmony of these texts, they would
finally state their conclusion and make
a record of it. Does it not reassure you
to know that like the apostles and older
men of the first century, those faithful
men, our “spiritual ancestors” of the late
1800’s, were determined to align their
beliefs solidly with God’s Word?
COMMENTS
So why is the conclusion presented already formed to jws today in the WT publications? Do jws look up all the related scriptures or just one or two at the most?
19. What is the year text for 2012, and why is it
appropriate?
19 The Bible is still the foundation for
our beliefs. With that in mind, the Governing
Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses has
chosen as our year text for 2012 the confident
statement of Jesus: “Your word
is truth.” (John 17:17) Since everyone
who desires to gain God’s approval must
walk in the truth, may all of us continually
strive to be guided by God’s Word.
COMMENTS
Listen at the next meeting, how many jws use a scripture to support their statements? How many reach for a WT publication or the Bible?
*** w9410/1 p.8***
All who want to understand the Bible should appreciate that the “greatly diversified wisdom of God” can become known only through Jehovah’s channel of communication, the faithful and discreet slave.—John 6:68.
CONCLUDING COMMENTS
Next week, LEARN WATCHFULNESS FROM JESUS’ APOSTLES.
Remember the WTS says while they have missed the point many times, at least they were on the watch……………
Watchtower Style Reasoning
The Watchtower Society uses an eisegesis approach to arrive at doctrine; that is, it creates a doctrine and then manipulates scriptures to support it. This requires resorting to rhetorical fallacy to convince people what they are saying is true.
A classic example of this is in a 1989 article explaining why Jesus is not mediator for all mankind. Following are some quotes;
"Is Jesus the Mediator only for spirit-anointed Christians or for all mankind, since 1 Timothy 2:5, 6 speaks of him as the "mediator" who "gave himself a corresponding ransom for all"?
The Bible contains both basic teachings and deep truths, which are solid food for study. ...
To grasp what Paul is saying, we must first appreciate that the Bible sets out two destinies for faithful humans: (1) perfect life on a restored earthly paradise and (2) life in heaven for Christ's "little flock," numbering 144,000.
... The Greek word me.si'tes ...
Clearly, then, the new covenant is not a loose arrangement open to all mankind. It is a carefully arranged legal provision involving God and anointed Christians.
This should help us to understand 1 Timothy 2:5, 6. Here the reference to "mediator" was made after the five other occurrences of the word in letters written earlier. Hence, Timothy would have understood Jesus' mediatorship to be His legal role connected with the new covenant. ...
Consequently, 1 Timothy 2:5, 6 is not using "mediator" in the broad sense common in many languages. It is not saying that Jesus is a mediator between God and all mankind. ... The apostle John referred to these at 1 John 2:2. But he indicated that others too will receive the benefit of Christ's sacrifice: "He is a propitiatory sacrifice for our sins, yet not for ours only but also for the whole world's."
Those of 'the whole world' are all who will gain eternal life in a restored earthly paradise. Millions of such approved servants of God now have that earthly hope...." Watchtower 1989 Aug 15 pp.30-31
The article starts saying this is solid food, indicating that if you don't agree with or understand the conclusion you are spiritually immature. It then shows that in order to understand the role of the Mediator another Watchtower doctrine must be believed. However no Scripture is given to back up the doctrine that humans will be resurrected onto earth, as there is no Scripture that makes such a statement. In fact, when Revelation 7 and 19 discusses the Great Crowd it places them in heaven "before" the throne. (See Paradise Earth and Great Crowd ) The doctrine of the Mediator is built upon this shaky foundation.
There follows lengthy inclusion of Greek definitions. This seems to be a diversionary attempt to give an air of authority to the article, as the discussion has no bearing on the existence of a secondary class or answering the original question.
The article next attempts to add weight by inclusion of a commonly used Watchtower word - "clearly". This term is constantly used in Watchtower articles to reinforce a questionable point. The writer also claims to be privy to what "Timothy would have understood".
Not content with limiting the mediatorship to only 144,000 people, the article goes on to add that the propitiatory sacrifice, which the Bible says is for the "whole world's" sins, only applies to those that gain life in the earthly paradise. Since the Watchtower teaches billions will die at Armageddon without any hope of a resurrection, it is excluding all worldly people alive from the value of the sacrifice as well.
http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/mediator.php
No scripture states that either the Great Crowd or Other Sheep are on earth. Christians understand the Great Crowd have a heavenly hope, as did Pastor Russell, and even Rutherford for many years.
http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/great-crowd-other-sheep.php