Outlaw: holdem' discussion

by sabastious 19 Replies latest jw friends

  • sabastious
    sabastious

    Hi Outlaw and JWN,

    A while back when I was a Witness on the way out, without fully knowing it, I would go over to my ex best friends house and play poker with fake chips. I learned the basics of the game in that environment and quickly realized I had a passion for it. We eventually all put money on Full Tilt Poker and played that to get a better feel for the math of the game. A local casino in my area was having this promotion at the time. They were redoing their entire parking lot so all the asphalt had been torn out leaving the dusty dirt underneath. The casino then created a promotion called the Dusty Bucks where everyone who caught a golf cart like shuttle in the dusty lot would be given a $10 voucher for free to play how they liked in the casino. I thought it was a clever scheme, and it also peeked my interest. I drove to the casino every day for many months, while the parking lot was being redone, caught a shuttle, which means you have to talk to the driver for some reason, and played the $10 for free. If I lost I would just leave and if I won I would buy in the 35 + 5 tournament they had every weeknight. I hate casinos so I played a slot that could do $5.00 per pull and I would just play that twice. I couldn't get out of there without smelling like cigarettes for a bit after. I never liked to stay long if I didn't have to.

    The poker tournaments there were obviously just a ploy to get people drunk so they would blow all their money on cash games and slots (they like when you play slots more). The blinds went up every 15 minutes and they were 25/50, 50/100, 75/150, 100/200, 200/400, 400/800, 500/1000, 1000/2000, 2000/4000, 4000/8000, 5000/10000. It's basically a superturbo designed to get them good and riled up then hit the cash game/slots. I much enjoyed socializing with all the people while I played in many tournaments. The way the tournament was designed I knew I needed to be aggressive. I tried to play position and bluff huge pots. In about 20 tournament nights with 77 people (10 tables of 11...shudder) I took down two first places, one third place, one fourth and a humble sixth for the bubble. It was some of the most fun I have ever had in my life. I used to play cash at a local poker club for a living, but playing the same people every day ends up with a dry well. The best part of poker, to me, is taking someone's money when I knew they didn't have to give it to me.

    My question for you is, how do you get over the hump of playing newbies? I am a steadfast believer that you can't bluff a newbie, but doesn't that mean newbies ruin the game? Without bluffing the game is just math and position. That seems to have been my experience playing the last few years.

    -Sab

  • OUTLAW
    OUTLAW

    Hey Sab..

    I don`t worry about Newbies..

    I play my hand..

    Eventually they do what every Newbie does..

    Make a Mistake..

    http://us.cdn4.123rf.com/168nwm/gothicru/gothicru0903/gothicru090300043/4569754-dos-ases-veces-en-texas-hold-39-em-poker-en-las-vegas-casino.jpg

    ........................ ...OUTLAW

  • sabastious
    sabastious
    Make a Mistake..

    That's just it I have found it hard to fully define what is a mistake and what is not outside of the obvious. I also find myself routinely disagreeing with what is considered the "by the book" move. I really enjoy setting up a good table image and then playing off that. I try to get people to think I am loose or tight then I tighten/loosen up in certain times I consider strategic. Do you believe that there is only one way to play a given hand or do you beleive that there are variables to consider?

    -Sab

  • sabastious
    sabastious

    By the way I would love to hear anyone elses thoughts on the game. I remember when one of my cousins found out that I played. He said that I was a chump that gave into Satan's temporary enjoyment of sin. I told him that paying ones bills isn't frivolous enjoyment. He then told me that he watches holdem on ESPN and would love to play himself, but chooses to abstain because of his religious beliefs. He wore it like a badge, but it just made me lose further respect for him.

    -Sab

  • finally awake
    finally awake

    the one time i played poker for actual money, i borrowed a quarter to start and finished with several dollars. i have no clue about the math/statistics behind each hand (that information just refuses to stick in my head), i was frequently unsure whether i had won a particular hand until someone told me to take the pot. i was oblivious to anyone's attempts to bluff, and i bet on anything better than a pair. so i would say that above all else, it sucks to play poker with me.

  • OUTLAW
    OUTLAW

    Do you believe that there is only one way to play a given hand or do you beleive that there are variables to consider?.....Sab

    There are different ways to play a hand..

    There are always variables..

    You need to factor those into your decisions..

    http://www.theholdemlounge.com/images/holdup.gif

    ........................ ...OUTLAW

  • sabastious
    sabastious

    There are different ways to play a hand..

    There are always variables..

    You need to factor those into your decisions..

    Hey Outlaw, this is definitely sound advice. It's an odd thing to say, but I find newbies to be the most difficult opponents in the game of Texas Holdem. The seasoned vets I can fool because my style is not something they are used to seeing. I often use that to my advantage because I know that I will come in as a surprise to them. For some reason most people grossly underestimate me and it takes a while for them to get in tune with what I am doing.

    The rule of thumb that I have gathered is that you never bluff a new player because they are going to be completely unaware of any ruse you are attempting to set up. With a newbie the chances are they are distracted by their cards and the one's on the table. Their play is generally simple and predictable, however they serve as incredibe wild cards at times and cost players big money with their bumbling play. For someone like me who utilizes the bluff a lot when a new player sits down at the table I seem to fear them. To me poker is a game of table image and position. It can take many hours of playing to get the players to believe you are playing real tight or real loose. If you successfuly get other players to assume you are playing one way you can then use that as an advantage when they react to that persona you are putting out, when the cards say something else. For example someone is consistantly playing middle or bottom pair they will be scared of top pair calling along side of them. They will usually fold to a raise on the turn or river. However if there is a new player in the hand they just might be holding onto a pair which will beat a bluff if they call to the river. New players tend to love calling to see all the cards, they feel they are cheated unless they go all the way to the river. Which just destroys any chance of bluff when certain cards show themselves as the time to run a bluff. Would you say that playing at higher money tiers fixes this issue? How do you deal with people who are in every hand calling all the way to the river? They seem to morph an otherwise predictable game of strategy into wild highs and lows, especially if they are drinking.

    -Sab

  • OUTLAW
    OUTLAW

    Hey Sab..

    Never stay married to a hand you see going down the tube..

    I dump hands all the time..
    I don`t gamble..I play my percentages..

    I`m not there to see how many pots I can win..

    I`m there to see how much money I can make..

    Let the wild players get lucky, it won`t last forever..

    Eventually you`ll be able to read them..Even if it`s on line..

    .......................... ... OUTLAW

  • talesin
    talesin

    Hey Sab..

    Never stay married to a hand you see going down the tube..

    I dump hands all the time..
    I don`t gamble..I play my percentages..

    I`m not there to see how many pots I can win..

    I`m there to see how much money I can make..

    Let the wild players get lucky, it won`t last forever..

    Eventually you`ll be able to read them..Even if it`s on line..

    That's what she said!

    I just play the 'free' stuff online, but mwah haha, I started with a $20,000 stake, and am well over 3 mill now.

    It really helps to be a math geek, and have NO ego when it comes to playing ,,, dump the hand if it's a loser!

    tal

  • talesin
    talesin

    Sab,

    I like to play it safe when they don't know me. Then, when I *do* bet, they back off! When it's time to pull a little bluff, they aren't expecting it ... hehehe. It builds the pot.

    Wait till you get a flush (for example), and the person with the straight is raising,,,, then egg them on,,, with just the right 'touch',,,,

    :D

    EDIT: as you said, and SPOT ON!

    If you successfuly get other players to assume you are playing one way you can then use that as an advantage when they react to that persona you are putting out, when the cards say something else.

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