Who do JW's think "his" is in Mt 24? Master? or Servant?

by pharmer 16 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  pharmer

  WMF, I think I see what you're saying. When you put djeggnog's statement next to that verse (which he did cite), in djeggnog's own statement he changes it slightly so they belong to the slave (?). To me it sounds contradictory, but maybe he didn't intend for it to sound that way (?). I guess all that really matters to me is what a typical JW would think regarding this verse, and it sounds to me that djeggnog is not the one to look to for a typical JW understanding of things (?).

  Ding, that's what I gathered, although I tried that route and it only raised more questions without truly answering the original question in the sense I was asking (or if it did, I wasn't confident that it did, so it warranted me asking more questions), and I'm not sure it would have ever been cleared up by him even if we had continued.
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  pharmer

  Mt 24:47 ...he will set him over all his possessions.
  ESV

  "His" = Master's

  Means they are the maser's possessions.

  Djeggnog: ...received its appointment to preside over the slave's "domestics"...

  Means they are the slave's possessions ("domestics").

  That's how I read these two similar but very different excerpts/messages.
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  Leolaia

  The parable is intertextual with the story of Joseph in Genesis (the faithful servant who was put in charge of his master's household and who was responsible for providing food to Egypt during the appointed time of famine), and the verses in question are dependent on Genesis 39:4-5 LXX:

  Genesis 39:4-5 LXX: "And Joseph found favor (heuren kharin) before his master (kuriou autou), and he was well pleased with him and appointed him over his house (katestèsen auton epi tou oikou autou) and gave everything that he had into Joseph's control. Now it came about that after he had been appointed over his house and over all he had (katastathènai autou epi tou oikou kai epi panta hosa), the Lord blessed (èulogèsen) the Egyptian's house for Joseph's sake and a blessing (eulogia) was on all his possessions (en pasi tois huparkhousin autò), both in the house and in the field".

  Matthew 24:45-47: "Who then is the faithful and wise servant, whom his master (ho kurios) has appointed over his household (katestèsen epi tès oiketeias autou), to give them their food (sitometrion "grain rations" in the Lukan version, cf. esitometrei "ration out grain" in the story of Joseph rationing out grain in Genesis 47:12-16 LXX) at the appointed time? Blessed (makarios) is that servant whom his master (ho kurios autou) will find (heurèsei) so doing when he comes. Truly I say to you, he will appoint him over all his possessions (epi pasin tois huparkhousin autou katastèsei auton)".

  The OT model has the servant being placed over his master's household and possessions.
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  pharmer

  Excellent! Thank you Leolaia!
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  maksym

  This parable is also referenced in my Bible in Mark 13:33-37 as being similar in structure.

  "Take heed, watch and pray; for you do not know when the time is. It is like a man going to a far country, who left his house and gave authority to his servants, and to each his work, and commanded the doorkeeper to watch. Watchtherefore, for you do not know when the master of the house is coming-in the eveneing, at midnight, at the crowing of the rooster, or in the morning- lest coming suddenly, he finds you sleeping. And what I say to you , I say to all; Watch."

  If I remember correctly the Watchtower understanding on this is the possessive pronoun, his, refers to the Master. They also refer to themselves as the wise slave recorded in Matthew 25:45-47, therefore they consider possessing authority over the belongings.

  Sidenote:

  The exegesis of Mathew 25:45-47 in my opinion is not too far off from what Watchtower teaches. In my church, the Scripture concerning the wise servants refers to the hierarchy of the church; namely the deacons, priests, bishops etc. The difference between WT theology and Christian theology on these verses is a matter of what kind of relationship does the stewart have with the domestics. In Watchtower theology it is an authoritarian control over the domestics. In Christian theology the stewarts, being leaders in the Churches, work more as caretakers and not rulers.

  Peace

  Maksym
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  pharmer

  Maksym, I agree. Thanks for the info!
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  mP

  This is one of many key scriptures where Jesus and NT are discussing the stoicism.

  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stoicism

  This argument hass been made many times, but a summary of its beliefs is to be satisfied with what you have.

  SLAVES OBEY MASTERS

  In the scripture in Matthew, jesus is not talking figuratively its a literal comment that slaves should obey their masters. Notice that the NT never says christians should free slaves or that slavery is bad, but rather accepts it.

  TAXES

  Its goes along with other gems, like pay your taxes. Its not chance that gospels show Mary and Joseph going out of their way to pay taxes even if Mary is heavily pregnant. It is important that a good example be set for the common folk.

  There are other scriptures im am sure we know or have heard that JC is saying it is important that all obey Rome. This is especially important as we no doubt realise that Rome controlled the church in the past. Jesus was their invention to give them a peaceful messiah, Rome was sick of the others of which there were many who were causing trouble and war with Rome. It is particularly ironic that all the other false messiahs were militarist but jesus preached peace. After the destruction of the temple and Messada and so on, Rome wanted the Jews to believe the messiah had come and that he wanted peace and they should accept their fate until the future. That is the start of Christianity, its also the reason why the gospels do not appear before the destruction of Jerusalem.