jwfacts.com

by allyouneedislove 32 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • allyouneedislove
    allyouneedislove

    I had a few comments to make regarding Paul Grundy's jwfact.com website. These comments are in no way meant to defend JWs, but only to point out illogical statements. I have actually found his website to be quite informative.

    www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/malawi-mexico-oath-allegiance.html

    This link discusses the Malawi atrocities committed against JWs. However, Grundy makes a few statements that are illogical and misleading.

    Quote 1: "This article shows the tragedy that occurred when Malawian Witnesses were hypocritically forced to uphold a higher standard than was expected of those in Mexico...". JWs are not " forced" to do anything concerning their faith. To use the word "forced" implies that the Malawian JWs had zero choice regarding the party card decision. I understand that some may have been in fear of being disfellowshipped. However, they could have bought a party card if they desired to do so. The Governing Body or Elders were not physically holding them from doing so. I am a big proponent of people recognizing that they have free will, no matter how difficult the consequences may be that follow.

    Quote 2: " Malawian Witnesses suffered unspeakable atrocities due to following the Watchtower’s illogical policy forbidding them to hold a political card in a one party state ". Once again, this statement is misleading and illogical. The atrocities were due to wicked human beings committing them. Grundy's comment here reminds me of the statement "If she wasn't wearing such provocative clothing, he would not have raped her". Each human being, regardless of whether they are part of organized religion, should be able to have free choice without the threat of violence. Grundy does go on to say " This sickening account of brutal rape, torture and murder of Jehovah’s witnesses is shocking and the people responsible cannot be excused for their actions, but this could have been prevented by purchasing a political card ". Grundy would have us believe that anyone should compromise on their personal beliefs, just so as not to become an object of hatred. This is not an idea I subscribe to.

    Quote 3: " It is bad enough that the Governing Body misused the 'word of God' to set the Malawian brothers up for murder ". This statement is very questionable. Again, Grundy is minimizing the fact that every human should have the right to choose. I feel that he is implying that no Malawian JW agreed with the position on purchasing a party card.

  • cedars
    cedars

    Paul Grundy has an email address on his website. Have you tried it?

    Cedars

  • cofty
    cofty

    allyouneedislove - you give me the impression you don't begin to understand the psychology of cults.

    The JWs in Malawi , like all sincere Jws everywhere, believed that the governing body spoke for god. In a difficult life-and-death matter they looked to the GB for direction as they had been taught. This put the GB in a position of tremendous power which they abused without regard for the human consequences.

    It was not fear of disfellowshipping that motivated them to surrender their lives and those of their families it was the deeply held belief that their relationship with god and eternal life was at stake.

  • Flat_Accent
    Flat_Accent

    Yes, OP. You're missing the point. Think like a witness here. Those JW's have free will - but for them, the consequences of going against Gods Organization and risking disfellowshipping/everlasting death are far more terrifying than suffering in this system for the truth. And I'm sure fear-mongering and peer pressure from the local elders also played a part in those witnesses deciding not to get a party card. Would you have gone against what the GB told you to do? I think not.

  • Amelia Ashton
    Amelia Ashton

    The "Shun Gun" was definitely being pointed at their heads!

  • Poztate
    Poztate

    I understand that some may have been in fear of being disfellowshipped. However, they could have bought a party card if they desired to do

    IF IF...you are a witness you really don't know much about your beliefs. You are either very young or have led a sheltered life. You should really download the new elders book from bittorrent "shepherding the flock of god" and see how things really play out in real life...

  • Marvin Shilmer
    Marvin Shilmer

    ... JWs are not "forced" to do anything concerning their faith....

    The choice presented to Jehovah’s Witnesses is this:

    -- Refuse the MCP cards.

    -- Or

    -- Suffer the loss of your closest friends and family.[1]

    If you think Watchtower’s top leadership bears no responsibility for the rapes and murders of Jehovah’s Witnesses in Malawi then you are sadly mistaken.[2]

    Marvin Shilmer

    http://marvinshilmer.blogspot.com

    ____________

    Ref:

    1. Watchtower Shunning – Deadly by Design available at: http://marvinshilmer.blogspot.com/2012/02/watchtower-shunning-deadly-by-design.html

    2. Malawi — Savage Betrayal by Watchtower? available at: http://marvinshilmer.blogspot.com/2011/03/malawi-savage-betrayal-by-watchtower.html

  • Azazel
    Azazel

    allyouneedislove first off welcome to the forum and i'm glad you are here.

    In response to your concerns that you posted i need to ask have you read Crisis of Concience? Paul is using information from a very reliable source that is from an ex Governing body member Ray Franz.Depending on how new you are/were a JW you may not have heard about him.

    The Malawi persecution was sadly as good a publicity stunt for the WTS as were the persecution in Nazi Germany. Remember you will be persecuted because of being my follower said Jesus, this persecution gave credibility to the WTS.

    Quote 1. Yes the JW are forced because their are no options. The GB says do this so what choice is there? if you dont do as the GB says you are not keeping in step with the organization and falling from God. No choice!

    Quote 2. In Malawi it was a single party state there was no opposition so this Party Card was in fact a Citizen Card identifing the holder as a citizen of Malawi. The card was neccesery to hold a job ,pay tax's own property etc. It suited the GB to have this example to show the JW are Gods people because of persecution.

    Quote 3. Same thing is happening in Eritrea - good publicity for the WTS. It suits the GB to have people facing persecution as i have already said. The fact they ignored the double standard that was happening in Mexico is proof that they pick n choose to apply the bible when it suits them to do so.

    As you are new here allyouneedislove i'm going to cut you some slack and hopefully the following posters will too. Get a copy of Crisis of Concience by Ray Franz ( its available for a few dollars online as a pdf) and read the chapters on the Mexico-Malawi double standard. This issue caused a GB member to start looking at the goings on within the WTS leadership. Once you have read this section and i suggest you read the yearbooks relating to Malawi and all that was going on there and the "not a mention" of what happened in Mexico. The WTS speaks volumes by its silence.

    Please take my advice it's genuine and i want you to have a helpfull/healing experience here. Im glad you are reading JWFacts website, it is one of a few really credible sites that just diseminates factuall information. Have a look at JWNews too.

    Regards to you.

    Azazel

  • Knowsnothing
    Knowsnothing
    The Governing Body or Elders were not physically holding them from doing so. I am a big proponent of people recognizing that they have free will, no matter how difficult the consequences may be that follow.

    Mmmhmm. Do it, or be shunned. Not much of a choice. To top it off do it, or in GB's belief, transgress before God.

    Grundy would have us believe that anyone should compromise on their personal beliefs, just so as not to become an object of hatred. This is not an idea I subscribe to.

    No. The problem is these particular people's personal beliefs were shaped, molded, crafted by the GB so as to believe their actions were pleasing God. The ultimate responsibility lies at the hands of GB.

    This statement is very questionable. Again, Grundy is minimizing the fact that every human should have the right to choose. I feel that he is implying that no Malawian JW agreed with the position on purchasing a party card.

    Whether an individual agreed is not important. They were collectively forbidden from holding cards, under threat of DF. There in lies the problem.

  • tornapart
    tornapart

    The problem with this is, those peope believed that if they bought the party card they were against God. It wasn't a case of being disfellowshipped. Their eternal life was at stake! If you were told that you would be destroyed for eternity, that God would punish you for it and not forgive you.. and you believed it was true.. what would you do?