How A Witness Might Respond to Doctrinal Errors

by stevieb1 10 Replies latest jw friends

  • stevieb1
    stevieb1

    Hello people. I would appreciate your take on the following reasoning.

    A Witness when presented with some errors of WT doctrine such as 607BCE for example could turn round and say, "Well we might be wrong on this but this matter is not as bad as teaching that God burns sinners in a fiery hell forever like some religion of Christendom do. I do not feel that chronology (or some other matter) affects my relationship with Jehovah and his organization." Or I have heard some say, "Jesus said that those who show love to another are his true disciples. Jehovah's Witnesses are showing outstanding love in this world so it does not matter about these other matters whether they be right or wrong."

    I have had these things said to me and at this stage I find it hard to deal with this reasoning as they put it so logically sometimes. I feel that many hearing this reasoning as soon as they start to question WT doctrine still decide to stay in the organizaton because of it.

  • coffee_black
    coffee_black

    Hi stevieb,
    The real problem is that no matter what they teach at any given time, you had better believe it, or suffer the consequences. When they change it, you had better go along with the program, or again, suffer the consequences. The real problem is the arrogance. They will never admit to being wrong, ever. If they are proven wrong, and have to change a teaching, it is either the fault of the rank and file for believing them too literally in the first place, or there's "new light". (a concept that has absolutely no basis in the Bible) It's a never ending shill game, and they are good at it. Times are changing, though, and they may not be able to talk themselves out of the negative publicity that is about to come out.

    cb

  • Marvin Shilmer
    Marvin Shilmer

    Hello, Stevieb1

    The comments you relay are not logical reasoning; they are explanations.

    Well we might be wrong on the 607 BCE chronology but this matter is not as bad as teaching that God burns sinners in a fiery hell forever like some religion of Christendom do. I do not feel that chronology (or some other matter) affects my relationship with Jehovah and his organization.
    Anything important enough to teach is important enough to teach accurately as possible. If the WTS decides to continue teaching the 607 chronology don't you think they should do it as accurately as possible? Do you think teaching a doctrine that we know is flawed affects our relationship with Jehovah, and his son Jesus?

    Jesus said that those who show love to another are his true disciples. Jehovah's Witnesses are showing outstanding love in this world so it does not matter about these other matters whether they be right or wrong.
    My mother shows outstanding love, but she is not one of Jehovah's Witnesses. Does it matter that she does not agree with some WTS doctrines and policies resulting from those doctrines? If we suspect that one of our closely held religious positions might be wrong, do you think the love Jesus taught would have us objectively reexamine that position?
  • NeonMadman
    NeonMadman
    "Well we might be wrong on this but this matter is not as bad as teaching that God burns sinners in a fiery hell forever like some religion of Christendom do.

    And teaching that sinners will burn forever in a fiery hell is not as bad as teaching that we should actively kidnap babies and offer them up as human sacrifices. Does that, then, justify teaching hellfire? If a teaching is wrong, we should not be teaching it.

    I do not feel that chronology (or some other matter) affects my relationship with Jehovah and his organization
    "Jehovah's organization" feels differently, since they will disfellowship you (aka spiritually stone you to death) if you persist in disagreeing with published doctrine. So it most certainly affects your relationship with the organizatiion.

    "Jesus said that those who show love to another are his true disciples. Jehovah's Witnesses are showing outstanding love in this world so it does not matter about these other matters whether they be right or wrong."
    How are Jehovah's Witnesses showing this "outstanding love"? Can you tell me where to find the hospitals they have built? The soup kitchens they run? The charities they operate that benefit mankind? Can you demonstrate their "outstanding love" by the way they treat friends and family members who happen to disagree with their doctrines? Do the elders in the congregations have a reputation for this "outstanding love"?

    And what about other religions that show "outstanding love"? Who do operate charities for the benefit of mankind? Who treat all humans with love, regardless of their beliefs? Does it matter that these other religions may not have every detail of doctrine right, or can we consider them to be true Christians because of the "outstanding love" that they show? What do the Watchtower publications say about that?

    Tom
    "The truth was obscure, too profound and too pure; to live it you had to explode." ---Bob Dylan

  • myMichelle
    myMichelle

    Huh, no 607, then no 1914.

    Without 1914, what other JW Doctrine falls? If there is no 1914, there was no inspection by Jesus in 1918 and no appointing of a Faithful and Discreet Slave. No FDS, no org with all of its many rules to follow...just for a start.

    Bugs me when such a glib answer is given...

    Michelle

  • Bodhisattva
    Bodhisattva

    The constant JW response to anything good in this world, from Habitat for Humanity to soup kitchens to peace talks, is ''it's not a panacea.'' Toward the end of my time inside I was astounded how often this put-down was used. ''Judge not lest ye be judged. For with what judgement ye judged, so shall ye be judged.''

    You cannot say 'your religion is because it has this teeny-tiny flaw, which is really just an esoteric interpretation of some old scrolls that my religion disagrees with your religion on,' and then say, 'my religion is right even if it has this or that flaw which affects the entire framework, because we don't teach that teeny-tiny flawed teaching your religion does.' Well, you can, but it wouldn't make much sense.

    Watchtowerism is not a panacea. So there!

  • AlanF
    AlanF

    : A Witness when presented with some errors of WT doctrine such as 607BCE for example could turn round and say, "Well we might be wrong on this but this matter is not as bad as teaching that God burns sinners in a fiery hell forever like some religion of Christendom do. I do not feel that chronology (or some other matter) affects my relationship with Jehovah and his organization."

    This is just an excuse to avoid answering the more difficult and basic question of just what standards God might apply to determine which religion, if any, is the only one he approves of. It amounts to claiming that God has determined The One True Religion by selecting the least among evils -- an idea that even the Watchtower Society rejects.

    The fact is that every religion has its warts and that's not going to change. Where JWs might claim superiority of doctrine with respect to the trinity, they lose in the "Bible chronology" department. Where they might feel superior because of not participating in war, they ought to feel inferior because of showing hatred for those who leave the religion. Where they might claim that they enforce strict standards of morality on their members, they should feel inadequate for producing a group of people who are incapable of following 'good' standards without being policed. Where they might feel good about themselves for having Pharisaically detailed rules about all aspects of adultery, they fall flat with the child molestation issue because they allow known pedophiles to operate freely in their own community and in the outside world. I could come up with dozens of similar exampes, but you get the point.

    : Or I have heard some say, "Jesus said that those who show love to another are his true disciples. Jehovah's Witnesses are showing outstanding love in this world so it does not matter about these other matters whether they be right or wrong."

    JWs do not show outstanding love in this world. They show a certain amount of love to one another, but only in the limited sense that a show of "love" is demanded by the Society in certain ways. For example, they claim that their preaching work is the epitome of showing love, but a careful look at what they preach and how JWs go about it in practices shows that this is a fairy tale.

    In more basic ways JWs are among the most unloving of religions. Anyone who quits the religion knows this firsthand. JWs do nothing for the world around them; the best they can claim is that they do no harm by carefully paying taxes and not engaging in revolution and so forth. But they do absolutely nothing positive besides their lame claim of preaching.

    : I have had these things said to me and at this stage I find it hard to deal with this reasoning as they put it so logically sometimes.

    Hopefully this thread will give you a lot more ammunition.

    : I feel that many hearing this reasoning as soon as they start to question WT doctrine still decide to stay in the organizaton because of it.

    That's true, but only because most JWs are quite ignorant of other religions. This includes those who are on the verge of quitting. Once a person really starts to do some research into the various religions that exist, and finds out that JWs are unique only in that they alone teach the full range of JW beliefs (I assume you can see the problem with this kind of reasoning that JWs use), he can refute the JW claims that they're so much better than everyone else.

    AlanF

  • metatron
    metatron

    I get so disgusted with that showing love stuff.

    Failing to kill someone else is not any evidence of love.
    Witnesses don't go to war out of obedience to the organization,
    not because they care a rats a$$ about anybody. Witnesses
    set a poor example on charity - often barely manifesting it
    to each other, much less people in the world.

    The Society has downgraded the 'love for one another'
    argument in recent years (see Truth book, where it used to
    be reason #1) because they know how ungracious most Witnesses
    are these days.

    metatron

  • belbab
    belbab

    Well we might be wrong on this but this matter is not as bad as teaching that God burns sinners in a fiery hell forever like some religion of Christendom do.

    Russell may have put out imaginary fires in an imaginary after life, but JWs have brought hell down to earth.

    They burn their children to death in not letting their lives be saved through blood transfusions, all for the honor of their god Molech.

    They allow young men to languish in prison for not accepting alternate service in the country they are living in, all for the glory of their god.

    They cover over justice in pedophile crimes.

    They allow full time workers to tire themselves out, living on poor food, no dental care, poor medical care, no provision for sickness and old age.

    They bring their organization between marriage partners, and divide something that God has put together.

    They force people who have an ardent desire for marriage and children
    to forego their natural inclinations and lead an unhappy and fruitless life.

    Enough already.

    belbab

  • stevieb1
    stevieb1

    thank-you all for this ammunition!

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit