Dammit
Ignore that last one. I am a little slow today
Watchtower Apologist does not find Don Cameron's book acceptable!
by Terry 17 Replies latest watchtower bible
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outsmartthesystem
DC - One of the things that convinces Jehovah’s Witnesses that religious groups like the Branch Davidians and The People’s Temple did not have God’s backing is because the men who were their leaders demanded unquestioning trust and submission to their directions. Witnesses have no difficulty seeing that fact. But they are unable to see that they are doing the very same thing when they give their unquestioning trust and submission to “God’s organization.”
WT Apologist - As an ex-Jehovah’s Witness Cameron cannot truly say what “convinces Jehovah’s Witnesses that …the Branch Davidians and The People’s Temple did not have God’s backing.” I can assure you, it is not merely because “their leaders demanded unquestioning trust and submission to their directions.” Primarily, if their belief system wasn’t based on the Bible truths then it is obvious they didn’t have “God’s backing.” Secondly, they formed in the 1930’s and 50’s, meaning that they would have missed the ‘Parousia’ of Christ and therefore, couldn’t have even been inspected in 1918-9. They were not preaching the Good News of the Kingdom of God and were not feeding Christ’s other sheep. These points brought up are just some of the Biblical requirements showing who would have “God’s backing” and approval.
OSTS - As Terry already mentioned....this reasoning is purely based on already having accepted Watchtower Chronology! This is purely circular reasoning that takes for granted that Christ inspected the world's religions in 1919, that Christ returned invisibly in 1914 and that Jerusalem fell to Babylon in 607BC. First prove that Jerusalem fell in 607 and then maybe we can move on to your next point!
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outsmartthesystem
DC - This is not just a little mistake. It’s a big mistake! For once people come to believe that Jesus made that Matthew 24:47 appointment in the spring of 1919, from that moment on they become captives of that belief—captives of the illusionary concept that all of God’s direction to mankind comes only through the Watchtower Society. It then dominates and controls the thinking of those who write the literature as well as the Witnesses who read it.
WT Apologist - To begin with, there’s no “illusionary concept” of any type. This is what Cameron is trying to sell the reader, that there really is some sort of mystical concept that holds downs the thought process of all Jehovah’s Witnesses. Where’s the proof, the documentation? Why should we take his word for it when he’s already proven to be deceitful, misleading, and intellectually dishonest? Furthermore, Cameron links this “concept” with the idea that “all of God’s direction to mankind comes only through the Watchtower Society.” Jehovah’s Witnesses do not believe this. Jehovah’s Witnesses believe “God’s direction to mankind comes” through the 66 books of the Bible. The Watchtower Society is responsible for the dispensing of proper food at the proper time under the “direction” of the Bible, which God has lovingly provided for mankind in general.
OSTS - Do you really need proof? You really want documentation? "We need to obey the faithful and discreet slave to have Jehovah’s approval." Watchtower 2011 Jul 15 p.24. How many Jehovah's Witnesses want to have God's approval? All of them? Therefore how many Jehovah's Witnesses must listen to the FDS (represented by the governing body)? "[A mature christian] does not advocate or insist on personal opinions or harbor private ideas when it comes to Bible understanding. Rather, he has complete confidence in the truth as it is revealed by Jehovah God through his Son, Jesus Christ, and "the faithful and discreet slave." Watchtower 2001 Aug 1 p.14 - Translation - God does not reveal the truth about the Bible to shmucks like you....he only does it through the faithful and discreet slave (represented by the governing body). Do you want to know the truth about the bible? Then ignore your own opinions and listen to the men in Brooklyn! "[Avoid] questioning the counsel that is provided by God's visible organization" Watchtower 1983 Jan 15 p.22 Avoid Independent Thinking. The apologist goes on to say that JWs do NOT believe that all of God's direction to mankind comes only through the Watchtower Society....rather.......that God's direction comes through the Bible. Well.....that is untrue. JWs believe that God's direction does come throught the bible.....SO LONG AS SAID DIRECTION IS INTERPRETED FOR THEM BY THE LEADERS OF THE SOCIETY. Finally if Witnesses don't believe that God's direction comes only through the society then please explain this:
"Consider, too, the fact that Jehovah's organization alone, in all the earth, is directed by God's holy spirit or active force. (Zech. 4:6) Only this organization functions for Jehovah's purpose and to his praise. To it alone God's Sacred Word, the Bible, is not a sealed book." -
Knowsnothing
The brainwashing is outstanding. These guys can commit murder and redefine death to be a superior state to that of the dead.
the day of one's death is better than the day of one's birth, Ecclesiastes 7:1
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outsmartthesystem
"The brainwashing is outstanding. These guys can commit murder and redefine death to be a superior state to that of the dead."
This is brilliant......and sadly the truth. Remember....the GB is never wrong. So long as they are allowed to redefine words and change predictions/interpretations to something else once the original has failed.......they can claim that they were never wrong. It boggles my mind that 7 million people can accept such a presentation.
The sad thing is that many moons ago I had a bible study that raised an interesting question. To tell you the truth I don't even recall what it was.....but I do know that he was calling out the Witnesses for having falsely prophesied. I looked it up (with the WT library of course). I asked an elder about it who assured me that "greater light" was released.....thus altering what was originally said. Boy was I relieved. I proudly reported back to my bible study that the Witnesses certainly did NOT falsely prophesy.
If other religions made predictions that didn't come true.....well....they were being led by Satan and they were false prophets. If they ever changed their tune.....I would point my finger and say "ha! waffling on their predictions! Proof they are not being directed by God". Yet when my own religion did the same thing....not only did I accept it.....I looked at it as PROOF they WERE being directed by God....because after all....."the light will get brighter." How they train the witness mind to accept such double standards is beyond amazing.
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Terry
The publications are like intermediary buffers between the rank and file and the actual people-sitting-in-a-room called Goverening Body.
It is the publications which, with faux "objectivity", constantly refer to Governing Body in glowing, complimentary terms.
So, we lose sight of the fact these people are CONSTANTLY PRAISING THEMSELVES!
If somebody stood in front of you telling you how great, important and essential they were the pomposity would leap out at you.
Consequently, rank and file read those faux objective publications like neutral confidantes instead of ego-trips in print.
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Cameron_Don
Here are several SettingTheRecordStraight (STRS) addresses that contain my responses to many of ThirdWitness’ comments about my book. HIs comments originaly appeaered on TOPIX a couple of years ago.
As many of us know, ThirdWitness does not always play fair when trying to defend the Watchtower religion. He often misrepresents what I have said and then accuses me of misrepresenting what Jehovah's Witnesses believe. He also often resorts to Watchtower propaganda just like the Governing Body.. They have trained him well.
http://settingtherecordstraight.wordpress.com/2010/06/30/another-update/#comments
http://settingtherecordstraight.wordpress.com/2010/01/03/chapter-1-the-concept-reviewed/#comment-75
Don
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Bubblegum Apotheosis
Terry, where did they find this apologist, the blogger was not honest about Jehovah Witnesses being able to "Make sure of all things" even the insane dubs, know asking the wrong question will bring trouble your way.
Zealous elders would love to entertain a comment during the Watchtower Study like "If our teachings are becoming more blurred, might Jehovah have left us, and moved on to find other teachers?"