Sunday talk on 144,000

by 2tone 12 Replies latest jw friends

  • 2tone
    2tone

    I have been meaning to post this. Just havent got around to it till now. This talk was a couple sundays ago. I was really confused about what he meant.

    Anyway he said the 144,000 is a legimate number because it says there is one Jesus or lamb and I was like ok whatever you say. Then he goes onto say that the 144,000 will come from every tribe and nation. He quoted a scripture in revelation near chapter 14 i think. Anyway I looked to my write and it listed the twelve different tribes of israel with 12,000 people coming from them to make the 144,000. So we take some things in revelation as legimate but we dont take the 12 tribes and 12,000 people in each tribe as legitimate. Somebody isnt telling the truth here

  • Aussie Oz
    Aussie Oz

    Yep

    half the verses are literal, the other half figurative.

    Thank god for the governing body, or nobody would knowwhich was which or if it was all literal or figurative.

    Oz

  • Alfred
    Alfred

    According to the WT, the ENTIRE book of Revelations is figurative or symbolic, except for the number "144,000"... that would need be a literal number in order for the GB to retain their authority.

    But the main reason they are not ready to admit that "144,000" is NOT literal is becaused they have so much invested in this doctrine, that doing so would seriously diminish the sense of urgency required to keep the field service hours up.

  • nugget
    nugget

    stupid religion and silly reasoning. If there was a medal for gibberish they would hold it. I am pleased to be free of this nonsense.

  • nancy drew
    nancy drew

    I'm surprised they didn't mention that a baktun is 20 katun cycles in the mayan long count calendar which is 144000 days and we are in the 13th baktun to end in 2012

    "EVIDENTLY" the the 13 baktuns are jesus and the apostles and all the days represent the complete group of 144000 and 2012 is armageddon "new light" the mayans where god's people but today the governing body has a brighter understanding of the prophecy

    fun with numbers especially 144000

  • EntirelyPossible
    EntirelyPossible

    Aussie Oz, it gets even more ridiculous than that. The verse they use to cherry pick the 144K number....they parse part of a SINGLE VERSE to be symbolic and part to be literal.

    Wacky shit.

  • bigmac
    bigmac

    yes--i think its high time the wt soc got noo lite about this magic number---and say its now not literal--but symbolic.

    if they did--one of the following would happen FOR CERTAIN

    1: they would see a huge increase in members

    2: they would see a huge DECREASE in numbers

    3: everything would stay the same.

    but i may be wrong--of course----i was bought up as a jw--but i'm gradually getting better.

    i think.

  • blondie
    blondie

    Can the 144,000 be literal if the 12 tribes are not literal?

    Revelation and original 12

    • Judah
    • Reuben
    • Gad
    • Asher
    • Naphtali
    • Manasseh
    • Simeon
    • Levi
    • Issachar
    • Zebulun
    • Joseph
    • Benjamin

    Ephraim (only original 12)

    Dan (only original 12)

    Levi (not listed in original 12)

    Joseph (not listed in original 12 but as Ephraim and Manasseh his 2 sons)

  • punkofnice
    punkofnice

    I wonder if they're going to funnel the 144000 as being 'symbolic'(TM) of the holy GB only! (Blessed be their holy name!)

    They can then ignore the increase in the yearly vinegar sippers.

    Catch. How many would start nibbling the crackers? Zit matter?

    Hmmmmm. Just thinking out loud (well not really out loud...but you get my drift....)

  • jonathan dough
    jonathan dough

    That the 144,000 is not an exact number is made manifest by Jesus’ statement that the patriarchs Abraham, Isaac and Jacob will also be in heaven:

    11 But I tell YOU that many from eastern parts and western parts will come and recline at the table with Abraham and Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of the heavens; … (Matt. 8:11 NWT).

    Central to the Jehovah’s Witnesses’ beliefs is the doctrine that the “Kingdom is in heaven, not earth” (NWT at 1653) and that neither the patriarchs, ancient prophets or anyone before the time of Christ goes to heaven. Yet somehow, in an effort to dislodge the patriarchs from heaven and disavow the words of Christ they theorize that this banquet in the kingdom of heaven is actually on earth.

    The inspired writer of Hebrews also stated that the patriarchs and other men of old sought a heavenly reward, not earthly, and that this heavenly destination was achieved on the basis of their faith.

    In faith died all these, not having received the promises, but from afar having seen them, and having been persuaded, and having saluted [them], and having confessed that strangers and sojourners they are upon the earth, 14 for those saying such things make manifest that they seek a country; 15and if, indeed, they had been mindful of that from which they came forth, they might have had an opportunity to return, 16 but now they long for a better, that is, an heavenly, wherefore God is not ashamed of them, to be called their God, for He did prepare for them a city ... [Heb. 11:13-16 Young's Literal Translation; also NIV (a better country—a heavenly one), NAS (a better country, that is, a heavenly one), NLT (heavenly homeland), KJV (a better country, that is, an heavenly), ESV (a better country, that is, a heavenly one), ASV (a better country, that is, a heavenly)].

    None-the-less, the Jehovah’s Witnesses teach, incorrectly, that Abraham, Isaac and Jacob will not go, and never wanted to go, to heaven. This is understandable because to concede otherwise would completely erode their 144,000 theory.

    Who are the “righteous” that are to be resurrected? These will include faithful servants of God who lived before Jesus Christ came to earth. Many of these persons are mentioned by name in Hebrews chapter 11. They did not hope to go to heaven, but hoped to live again on earth (Live Forever, 1989, Resurrection - for Whom? And Where? 172, 20).

    If they had kept remembering and longing for the place they had left, they would have had an opportunity to return. But they were reaching out for a better place - ultimately life on paradise earth under God’s heavenly kingdom. - Hebrews 11:15,16. (W94 5/15 30, Coping With Homesickness in God’s Service).

    And there is no question about the spiritual strength of those men and women of faith listed in Hebrews chapter 11. None of those were “born again.” All of them looked forward to “a better resurrection [to life under God’s kingdom] right here on this earth. - Hebrews 11:35. (W82 2/1c 29 “Born Again” - Man’s Part and God’s Part).

    It is difficult to believe that millions of Jehovah’s Witnesses, perhaps unwittingly, believe this without blinking an eye and completely ignore the clear words of Scripture; but they do. Never-the-less, because at a minimum Abraham, Isaac and Jacob will go to heaven, the 144,000 is symbolic and numbers at least 144,003. The final number cannot be ascertained, but is countless in the sense that it will be in the millions.

    http://144000.110mb.com/144000/index.html

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