JW Trying to Refute Don Cameron's book

by AuntBee 9 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  AuntBee

  One thing he brought up was a new one to me. He mentioned the "refinement" prophecies in Malachi 3 and Daniel 12, and how Cameron totally ignores them! Somewhat similar to the light getting brighter idea from Proverbs, implying that teachings would become more "refined" as time goes on. It is not that difficult to look up both in their context and see that the refinement spoken of does not apply to teachings but to persons. The passages call to mind New Testament verses speaking of believers as purified, cleansed, clothed in white, etc.

  Oh yah, and after he made that and other points, i was blocked, as in "conversation over."
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  yourmomma

  i feel real sorry for you if you read Don Camerons book, actually think about what is being said, and verify it yourself, and then proceed to still believe in the watchtower.

  thats tantamount to believing the earth is flat in this day and age.
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  wasblind

  Nothin' is bein' refined in this religion,

  the ole light is not bein' added too, it's bein' totally extinguished

  stuff they have in their old literature is considered old, and they don't adhere

  to it anymore, a refinement would be more like addin' to the old light makin' it better and brighter
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  Ding

  By the "refinement" theory proves too much.

  By that line of reasoning, ANY religious teacher or organization could have been chosed as the faithful and discreet slave because Jehovah could have refined any of them.

  The WT teaching is not that Jesus inspected the religions of the world and found the WTS to be horrible but able to be refined.

  It's that he inspected the religions in 1918 and found the WTS to be faithfully providing good spiritual food and ON THAT BASIS appointed them over his whole house.

  As Don Cameron points out, the question is whether there is any way Jesus Christ could have examined what the WTS taught from its inception down to 1918 and concluded that it was faithfully teaching spiritual truth in harmony with God's Word.

  If it wasn't, then its claim to be have been appointed as the faithful and discreet slave organization is false.

  If it was, then today the WTS is nearly totally heretical, because most of the 1876-1918 teachings have been scrapped and replaced.
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  ssn587

  Some or perhaps more than some (what number is that) in the jehovahs nonwitnesses actually are delusional, self applying delusion. If they don't hear what is the party line then it is a lie, or we are suppose to misunderstand. They aren't going to wake up anytime soon, they don't want to, it would burst the little bubble they have been ensconed in.
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  sir82

  Refining is one thing. It implies moving from "We don't know what this text means" to "OK, now we understand it".

  The WTS doctrinal history is more like this:

  "This text means XYZ, and here are a dozen different references proving our point."

  Then 20 years later: "No that text means ABC and not XYZ, and here are a dozen different references proving our point."

  Then 20 years later: "Actually, that text does mean XYZ, and here are a dozen references proving it can't possibly mean ABC."

  The above has proved true for the Generation teaching, "superior authorities" of Romans 13, resurrection of inhabitants of Sodom & Gomorrah, organ transplants, blood fractions, alternative service in place of military conscription....the list goes on and on.

  That's not "refining", that's "flip-flopping". And neither Malachi nor Daniel mention "flip-flopping" in their writings.
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  AuntBee

  Thanks for the helpful comments!

  Ding: Yes, Jehovah could have refined any one of them. ---- "They demonstrate that their heart is in a teachable condition so they can learn greater light from the Bible." By this logic, the more an org/church has changed/made corrections, the more teachable their heart is? Maybe some other org besides the WT has changed even MORE, so is even more teachable. LOL.

  Of course the only teachings that matter are the ones WT hasn't changed on - trinity, hell, paid clergy, etc. So it's their view on these that makes them the truth.
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  wha happened?

  So u were blocked from making a response. Was this on a board for others to see? But by blocking you he saved time in your response. He already knows your right, he just didn't want to see it
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  00DAD

  The whole "light getting brighter" analogy (LGB) is flawed. It's not at all how these supposed "improvements" work in actual JW theology. The "truth" isn't revealed gradually as the LGB analogy suggests, it just suddenly changes, like a light being turned on with a switch, not gradually made brighter as with a rheostat.

  Finally, the LGB analogy would leave absolutely no room for reversals or "flip-flops". That would be the "light goes on, and then off again, and then on again, and then ...."

  It's actually fairly insipid when you analyze it, completely illogical.
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  OnTheWayOut

  To say "What about Malachi, Daniel, any scripture?" to answer Don Cameron is silly. He makes an easy to understand point about 1919 and the predecessor to the JW's saying they were chosen for the reasons they give, then demolishing those reasons.

  It would be like demonstrating that the Watchtower is two-faced when it came to being a member of the United Nations and them coming back with "What about Smurfs?"