Had a Frustrating Discussion with Mom...

by tenyearsafter 26 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • tenyearsafter
    tenyearsafter

    My 80 something year old mom is a die hard JW, but to her credit, she has not shunned me. As would be expected, she is always "praying" that I return to Jah and get reinstated. Her M.O. is consistent...every time my wife and I see her, she always tries to steer the conversation to "how bad the world" has become.

    Today, she escalated the "Theocratic attack" by coming out directly and asking me what I thought of world conditions. I finally took the bait and told her that I thought some things were worse and others were much better than in past years. I pointed out that war casualties were the lowest in the past 25 plus years versus other times in history, death through epidemic was lower, etc. I pointed out that in the Dark Ages, 2/3 of the known world population died from the Black Plague. She just gave me that "deer in the headlight look" and said that she didn't agree...times are far worse today.

    She then asked me why I had become ignorant of what the Bible teaches. I responded that I wasn't ignorant, but that I had now had a chance to actually study the Bible versus being told what I believed about it. The discussion went that way for over an hour, when I finally told her my main problem with JW's was the veneration of the Organization. She kept saying that JW's don't place the GB on a pedestal. I told her that I could never be reinstated as long as I didn't believe and follow exactly what the GB says is "current" truth. She flat out said that was wrong...sheesh! I then asked her what would happen to her if she went to the elders and said she no longer believed that 1914 was not the date of Christ's Presence, and Mom actually said that that would be fine...we all can have questions and doubts. I told her that she would be disfellowshipped if she didn't immediately recant her belief...she denied it. I finally asked her the big "Ah Ha" question..."if I believed all of the core doctrines of JW's such as two classes, no Hell, no Immortal Soul, no Trinity and lived an exemplary life, but I wasn't a member of the Organization, what would happen to me at Armageddon? She wouldn't answer the question. She side stepped any hard question I asked, ie: changing doctrines, 1914, 1975, the Generation...it was always, "we are adjusting our understanding as the light gets brighter". I asked her if the GB was God's Channel on earth, didn't they reflect badly on God with the constant changes in belief? God is infallible, so why would he give flawed information to his channel? Again, no response.

    When all was said and done, she just kept saying I needed to "get back to basics and study the Bible". She said she couldn't do it with me, but that an "older man" could help me regain my Bible knowledge. I told her that I would be happy to sit down and study only the Bible with an "older man", but I refuse to sit down and study a WT publication with someone. That set her back, and she just kept repeating I needed to get right with Jah.

    The conversation ended with that, and she is still "associating" with me, but it was an extraordinarly frustrating two hours. It is the first time I have seen how blinded to thinking JW's are. I guess the only good thing to come out of the whole thing was that she didn't label me an apostate and tell me never to see her again.

    Sorry to ramble on, but I now see how frustrating trying to reason with JW's on simple issues can be. I have a better understanding of some of the frustration others on the Board have had in discussing things with JW family and friends. JW's just can't grasp the concept of critical thinking, and that is the saddest thing of all...they truly are "captives of a concept".

    TYA

  • 3dogs1husband
    3dogs1husband

    ditto........litterly ditto!

    :( your right it could be worse they could shun us or turn us in...lol

  • ShirleyW
    ShirleyW

    You must be knew to this site, that's the usual move by parents who try to get their little lambs to join the flock again. A lot of us here have gone thru the same thing and have shared out stories here.

    You're mother is just doing what she feels she has to do get you back within the fold.

  • tenyearsafter
    tenyearsafter

    Hi Shirley, I actually have been on the site for a long time...I just managed to keep my mother at arm's length when it came to this type of discussion. I have been out for 16 years, and this is the first real "sit down" we have had. I just found the timing interesting...she is really pressing now, which would go hand in hand with the new emphasis by the Borg on how "close" we are to the end. It still is sad to see how such an intelligent woman can be so blinded to reason, but as I like to say...it is what it is!

  • thetrueone
    thetrueone

    You must remember that JW knowledge has been cultivated and supported on fear and ignorance.

    She just gave me that "deer in the headlight look" and said that she didn't agree...times are far worse today.

    Thats not the Truth at all, even in biblical times when the " End Times " prophecy was written everything mentioned was prevalent.

    For example ....... Since in those times all civilizations thought earthquakes were caused by gods, the Judeans ( Israelites ) also thought so as well but

    by their god of course. Wars, rumors of wars, pestilences, earthquakes, famine etc . etc .... they were all happening at that time and era.

    But their god ( Yahweh ) was going to redeem them of all of these troubles, so they thought.

  • tenyearsafter
    tenyearsafter

    I know my experience is nothing new to many of the people on the Board...it is just amazing to see how such a well read, intelligent woman can become so unable to see anything but what she has been indoctrinated with. I just sat there fascinated by the whole conversation as it unfolded...it was as if it were scripted and that script was distributed to every JW family member to use for "helping lost ones come to their senses"! It is certainly a slippery slope to see how far you can take the discussion before you are labeled an apostate.

  • OUTLAW
    OUTLAW

    JW`s don`t talk to you..They talk at you..

    Your supposed to listen..

    It`s very frusterating for them when you don`t do what your told..

    One day JW`s will run the Universe..

    The WBT$ said so..

    mutley-ani1.gif image by GeneralWaco...OUTLAW

  • james_woods
    james_woods

    I saw that it rained a lot in California yesterday, and a big section of a hill slid down and slipped into the ocean.

    Should I believe this must be a sign from above that the end is near? I think many JWs REALLY believe this...

  • alanv
    alanv

    Hi tenyearsafter, there is a very good website called the good news network. It is nothing to do with religion, it simply prints articles from round the world of all the good things that are happening. I use it regularly when talking to any JW, because as you say they like to go on about the bad things. Here is a link for anyone interested.

    http://www.goodnewsnetwork.org/

  • tenyearsafter
    tenyearsafter

    LOL Outlaw and J_W!

    As to the comment about the road slipping into the ocean in CA, I would shudder at the absurdity of it if I wasn't convinced that many JW's actually believe that! My mother is somewhat housebound, so she stays glued to the TV all day and gobbles up any "bad" news as supporting the "things are getting worse" proofs. When I pointed out to her that modern technology has given us real time ability to see events happening around the world, she just ignores that comment. When I told her that it could take a year or more to hear of disasters in far flung places in the world 100 years ago, so that silence is interpreted as being "not as bad" as today, she just moved on to the next point in her agenda.

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