Which Beliefs and Doctrines Helped Push You Out?

by ilikecheese 36 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  ilikecheese

  Okay, so this is my first post, but I've been lurking here for months and months. I have to say this is a very informative and hilarious site. You guys are great to read! I'm not a JW, but I've been dating one for quite some time. Things have been iffy between us quite frequently because he keeps trying to convince me that the JWs are the way to go, and everyone else is clearly wrong. He's broken up with me twice because I adamantly refuse to be interested after everything I've learned. I myself am a pretty devout Christian who knows the Bible well enough to know they're not really following it. Just the parts they want to. We argue about religion CONSTANTLY. This page has given me support in knowing that converting to their doctrines is a bad idea and strength in my conviction to not end up marrying this guy if he doesn't get away from them. I don't want my future children exposed to this nonsense, especially the lack of love when that was one of Jesus' biggest driving points!

  Anyway, I've gotten him to concede that they're not always right. (He's not as hard as other cases because he's never been baptised and he's only been going there for about ten years because of his mom.) I've talked to him about:

  -The false prophecies/what The Bible says about false prophets

  -The adding to/taking away from The Bible and what The Bible says about that

  -That Jesus warns in Mark 13 about anyone saying they are the way

  -The idea of "spiritual Israel" being wrong based on Romans 11 (which I know is kind of an iffy point because a lot of Christians believe in "spiritual Israel," too; I apologize if any still Christians disagree with me on this topic! )

  -The fact that based on John 20 talking about nailS that Jesus couldn't have been killed on a torture stake (I have heard they've backed on this claim; is that true?)

  -The 144,000 having to be Jews based on the verses before specifying the tribes they're from

  -The fact that the NWT isn't even close to the original Greek/Hebrew (I have an interlinear Bible), and most of the blatant changes are just doctrine they disagree with

  -The fact that Jesus said "you'll know you're my disciples because of the love you show for one another," when they have clearly unloving approaches to people who are in bad standing with their church and with "worldly people"

  -The fact that they worshipped Jesus until the 1950s, then stopped because it's "idolatrous"... even though the New Testament is full of stuff telling us to worship him, that we're his servants, that we're witnesses of him, and that we can pray to him. And they elevate a group of men to a parallel position to that of God by saying if you rebel against them, it's against God. How is that not idolatrous?

  -They lie about other church's teachings! I like looking at his new magazines to debate with him, and the current one he's carrying around says that most churches don't let you compare their beliefs with what the Bible says and that most churches claim that only a few people actually understand the Bible... which seems to only represent Catholics and JWs, to be honest. He even agreed with me on the JWs part. So...

  The list goes on and on. Thanks if you're still reading! For me, it's easy to look at these things and see that they're wrong. I know the Bible and have never been indoctrinated by them. The frustrating thing is that he's agreed with me that a lot of that stuff is wrong, but he still says they follow the Bible more than anyone else. I disagree obviously. But I wanted to ask you guys what it was that really stuck in your craw about the church that really got you out. Maybe I can get some tips from people who've been on the inside that can help me. Any responses would be muchly appreciated!

  And really, you guys are great! Keep it up!
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  recapitated

  I left partially because of the highly oppressive JW policies which amount to nothing more than forcing people to live in a manner that is unatural and therefore unhealthy. I wanted to be a human being, not a mindless programmed robot. Not to mention that most JWs seemed to be intellectually deficient and emotionally disturbed hypocrites.

  Ultimately my problem was with Christianity itself. The god portrayed in the bible was clearly not a divine being but merely a petty, bloodthirsty tyrant... a creation of the vilelest and most depraved human imagination (ie JEWS). Most of the people I had met throughout my life had better qualities and were more deserving of love and respect than that piece of shit dog (yes I know, it's an insult to dogs to compare them to that abomination). It is an ideology of reversals: Up is down, left is right, misery is hapiness, hate is love, etc.

  I walked away from the JWs twenty years ago but I enjoy reading the posts on this forum. I find it especially amusing when people accuse the WT of misrepresenting Jewhovah. They represent "it" perfectly, especially since they began to gradually phase out the Christ figure into a less important role within their ideology. This comes as no surprise when we look at the scum that runs the organization. Can you guess their lineage by looking at some of their names? The WT is Talmudic at it's core and this will become more obvious in the years to come.
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  bob1999

  I am not a JW but I have never understood how any JW that was in before 1995 can still be a JW.

  Ask him how the "only true chruch" can teach from 1952 until 1995 that some of the "persons" alive to see the events of 1914 will still be alive when the big "A" comes (not only did they teach that, they taught that it was "the Creator's promise" ) but then in 1995, POOF, they toss that away. Not to mention they have changed that 1995 teaching twice since then.

  " What was “truth” for decades, was in reality only “speculation”, by the Watchtower’s own admission!"

  http://www.soundwitness.org/jw/what_happened.htm

  Peace
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  trueblue

  Ya, and predicting the end would be here in 1995 was a prediction that makes it a prophecy and did not come true so it was a false prophecy to say the least so there no other way to explain it other than they false prophets period. I have mentioned on this board a couple of times but no one seems to remember the WatchTower that tries to justify the mistake by saying God's chosen people asked Jessus if he come to fulfill the prophecy and Jessus stated "no not at this time" so what the WTS is trying to say is sense God's people were wrong and still were in good standing with God so it is alright for them to be wrong, but it not make sense to me what the WTS trying to say because the ones asking Jesus a question was doing just that, they were asking a question because they did not know witch is different then saying they do know and making prophecies as the WTS had done and that did not come about. Not only did I see this statement about these chosen ones asking Jesus in the WT I also observed it come out in a talk, but anyways looking at the subject only tells me then it does not really matter what you believe weather it be people go to heaven or hell or if there really a hell or if Jesus was pinned to a cross or a stake (really if a person was pinned to a cross they would die just the same as if they were pinned to a stake oe if you had your peter nailed to a tree stump it would sure as " " hurt) I am pretty sure the cross was not adopted by religeon yet at the time Jesus was executed but the cross was used by Mystics as a language meaning two or dualality, but it still does not matter, the scriptures say that God will decide what is right or wrong and he will take care of it. Yoy do not need to know how a car operates to drive a car, you do not need to know how a computer works to use a computer. You do not need to know how your mechanic fixed your car when it was broke down. etc. etc. and you difinately do not need a relationship thats going to argue about religeon. Been there done that just don't remember much...
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  ilikecheese

  Thanks for the answers so far. And just so you know and no one thinks I'm being stupid haha, the cross thing is really of no consequence. As long as you realize Jesus had kind of a crappy death, that's all. I just used the cross as an example of when they've been wrong, especially since I've heard that they say it may have actually been a cross now. It was more just to say, "Hey, here's another time when they've been wrong."

  And yeah, relationships with arguments about religion are really crappy sometimes. We just get along SO well apart from this stuff. And the arguments are usually civil. I only punch him in the mouth occasionally.

  I'm also not some sort of Nazi doctrine type person. I think it's perfectly fine to differ in opinion on some things. Most churches I've been to say the same thing. I think all that matters is acceptance of Christ, showing love, and trying to be the best person you can be. And I also think God's work isn't limited to preaching. I think it's very much about being charitable and helping your fellow man, too. I think if more Christians did that instead of being judgmental turds, people might actually like us! But organized religion basically is The Association of Turds with Superiority Complexes.
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  Aussie Oz

  Welcome ilikecheese...so do i...

  I was Disfellowshipped in 2000 and until about a year ago i still thought they were the one true religion. I had no intention of going back no matter what and was living as happy a life as i could waiting for 'jehovah' to kill me at armageddon.

  So, whar changed me? The theocratic warfare concept they have. I was pissed off with my ex wife and how she was manipulating things to remove me from my kids lives, I googled "jehovahs witness child custody'' and found the truth.

  They LIE to get their own way, they lie in court, to judges to keep custody of kids because those who have left or been kicked out and those judges do not deserve the truth.

  scum sucking bottom dwelling trogladites all of them. And i was one, fooled at the time to think that it was a proper and righteous thing to do.

  oz
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  talesin

  Welcome!

  The hypocrisy of 'do what I say, and not as I do', was what got me started out the door of the Kingdumb Hell. Elders who got sh*t-faced drunk every weekend, and then some 18 YO kid would get disfellowshipped for getting drunk once. Pioneer friends having sex with their boyfriends. "Brothers" cheating each other at business. But the harshness of the discipline all depended on 'who you knew'.

  Beliefs - I thought their explanation of the Daniel book was just OTT and too convoluted for anyone to really understand.

  That's why I left the religion,,, later I found out about ....

  Chile Sexual Abuse -- the '2 witness' rule has been used to cover up thousands of cases of child molestation (ie, if you do not have 2 witnesses of wrongful doing, you can NOT accuse a brother or sister of a sin/crime; how many child molesters have witnesses to their evil deeds?). They would also 'transfer' special pioneers who were reported to the elders, to other congregations (similar to the Catholic Church transferring priests). I know of one case where a 15 YO girl was molested and made pregnant by one of these "special" servants of Jehovah. She was disfellowshipped,,, he was transferred. Lots of stuff on that, just look around here and online.

  United Nations Scandal - they were an NGO with the UN until it was revealed publicly online. Yet they condemn the UN as Satan's instrument, but apparently joined to give themselves some kind of upper hand politically.

  tal
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  Black Sheep

  Welcome to the forum cheezey one.

  Dishonesty.

  E.g. Quoting snippets that give a false impression as to the intent of the author. WT publications are full of examples of this.

  The Oct & Nov public Watchtowers contain articles defending their faulty date of 607BC for the fall of Jerusalem. Once again, they use a variety of dishonest techniques to deceive the readers. I suggest you put him in a position where he feels he has to defend these techniques to you. Start by asking for copies of them, then ask us for help.

  Cheers

  Chris
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  wobble

  Welcome Ilikecheese, if I ever change my screen name it may well become Cheeseismydownfall, I eat so much of the lovely stuff, from all around the world, that I am a true Wobble !

  I was born in to the cult in 1950 and did not leave, finally, until 2008. What forced me to walk was the worship demanded by the Governing Body, who put themselves in the place of Jesus totally, and in the place of God the Father frequently.

  O.K they call it "loyalty" and "submission" etc but they are demanding, ever more so in a shrill voice, worship.

  I never swallowed all the wacky doctrines or the crazy commands to lead my life in certain ways, and as the years rolled by I found more and more that I could not go along with. In common with others, since leaving I have discovered everything about the WT and believe me, they are custodians of nothing that is true that is unique to them.

  The "Truth" would have a unique doctrine to distinguish it from all the other faiths, a doctrine that was supportable from the Bible.

  The JW/WT religion has no such thing.

  Please get your BF to read "Crisis of Conscience" by Raymond Franz followed by Stephen Hassans 2 books.

  Good luck !
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  finallysomepride

  welcome ilikecheese

  lot's of their bullshit beliefs forced me out, but one of the main reasons I stopped going was I could no longer stand the anxiety & panic attacks, the depression & stress. The day i stopped going I started to sleep alot better

  fsp