An Old Argument.... does it hold water? (page 97)

N.drew

So rude of me, with the nothingness happening and all, Gollem was the character in Lord of the Rings whose only concern was the ring. Get it? Circular reasoning. No? I forget sometimes.

AGuest

I only compare him to a father because that is what the bible says he is

To ALL of mankind, dear ST (peace to you!)? I would vehemently disagree... but I could be wrong. Can you show me, please, where it says that? Because I am aware of where it speaks of TWO "men" sowing seed... as well as "the children of God" vs. "the children of the Devil." I am aware that He is Father to and Husbandly-owner of Israel... but not of any other nation. Can you help me out, please? Thank you!

I was once a believer.

Please, PLEASE know that I am NOT meaning to contend, dear Q (peace to you!) or insult... but I MUST disagree with this statement, as it applies to God. You may have once been a believer in... for example... "Jehovah"... even "Jesus"... or the god(s) of the various religions you associated with. But you have NEVER been a believer in the Most Holy One of Israel, JAH of Armies... OR in His Son and Christ, the Holy One of Israel and Holy Spirit, JAHESHUA. And yes, dear one, there IS a difference. BIG difference. HUGE. You didn't even KNOW of these when you "believed"... so there is no way you can say you believed in God. So, that you were once a "believer" only begs the question... and should compel YOU to ask: in what... and who?

What factual or tangible information would cause you to publically rescind your belief statements regarding your god?

Again, I believe I answered this question according to how you initially stated it, dear one. But since you remain unsatisfied, I will endeavor to do so again... according to the way you're stating it now:

Any indisputable fact or tangible information that would prove... to the world... that my Lord, the Holy One of Israel and Holy Spirit, JAHESHUA, the Chosen One of JAH (MischaJah)... did not and does not exist... would cause me to publicly rescind my belief statements, dear one. Because if HE didn't/does not exist... then the Most Holy One of Israel, JAH of Armies, does not exist as it is through that One, the Son, that I came to know... and now DO know... and am known BY... the Father.

Now, I realize that many have taken it upon themselves to TRY and prove that my Lord never existed... even publishing all kinds of opinions, rhetoric, and progaganda. And others say he was merely a man, but not the Son of God at all.

So, okay, prove to me... and the world... factually and tangibly... that he did not and does not exist... or, if he did, was not the Son of God... and then we can talk about what I would publicly rescind. And I would have absolutley no more problem doing so... than I did publicly rescinding my "faith" in the WTBTS... when I came to know the truth... about them. Because, like my Lord... who teaches me... I have no fear of shame - every human who has ever lived... except for him... has reason to be ashamed. For one thing or another. Not all can own up to that, though. I can. Have done it and have no doubt I will have to do so again... for some reason or another... before I leave this life. I am not afraid of that, so...

I hope that suffices to answer your question, because that is what it would take.

Again, peace to you, both!

YOUR servant and a slave of Christ,

SA

AGuest

Gollem was the character in Lord of the Rings whose only concern was the ring. Get it? Circular reasoning. No?

I did get that that was Smeegle, dear N.drew (peace to you, dear one!)... but not the "circular reasoning." Girl, your mind is sumthin' else! GOOD one! Great!

Again, peace to you!

Your servant, sister, and fellow slave of Christ,

SA

SixofNine

Like I asked in that last post, should he take our children from us, to protect them from us... and from what we teach them?

Uh, yeah, of course. Sort of like Child Protective Services does.

Stop us from being able to have children at all?

Um yeah, of course, wrt mentally ill people who absolutely WILL harm the children born to them.

How many people do you think would be crying out against the injustice of that?

What? No one. Don't be silly. Hell, we can't get you to cry about the injustice of God NOT doing anything. God knows you aren't going to accuse HimHerIt of injustice for actually doing something moral and correct.

How many people would be calling that evil?

No one.

Twitch

Aguest, thank you for your responses. I'm glad that your beliefs work for you, some of which I agree with, some I don't.

I wish you well in your divinely directed and inspired work here on this ex-fundamentalist christian forum.

N.drew

Somebody said something nice!!

still thinking

I think what you are doing is similar to what is called suicide by cop, still thinking.

N.drew...I think it is more look opening your eyes and seeing what is really going on...and not making excuses any more.

If indeed we do have a creator..he certainly isn't a loving one.

It angers me that we think its ok that God allows these things...that is warped reasoning...so we need someone to blame. Hey we can't blame God, he loves us...doesn't he?...well then, we need to blame people or ourselves. A good example was you blaming yourself earlier...but you know what? You can never cure the worlds ills...you just don't have that much power or control. You can do something small and hope it makes a difference and that is it.

It reminds me of an abusive alcoholic relationship...no matter how much they shit on you...they LOVE you, they didn't mean it, they are going to change things, they will fix the problem. Somehow we are to blame, if we change ourselves things will be better...it is somehow our fault. Just like an alcoholic he created the mess and we blame ourselves for the fallout.

I say NONSENSE to that, and NONSENSE to belief that a loving God would allow such atrocities to happen to the human race that he supposedly LOVES.

still thinking

I am aware that He is Father to and Husbandly-owner of Israel... but not of any other nation. Can you help me out, please? Thank you!

So Aguest...is this why he couldn't care less about children starving...he isn't their father?

tec

Tell me, who are the WE you are referring to...

Humankind.

All my life I believed in god...this made not a jot of difference to those people who are dying needlessly...this didn't prevent people from being murdered...this ended no ones suffering. He knows that it won't happen, he knows that the whole earth will not do what he wants...so why keep torturing the human race. Does he derive some pleasure from it?

If you acted on your belief to help someone, even in a small way, then your faith (with deeds) DID alleviate someone's suffering. But yes, He knows the whole earth will not do what he wants... because the whole earth does not belong to Him; does not call Him their Father, does not even know Him. But there are still people out there who WILL do what he asks, and perhaps those people will not only help to alleviate suffering (sometimes little; sometimes a lot), but might also help to lead others to do the same.

He is not torturing the human race, nor derive pleasure from it. Just the opposite. You just have to look at Christ to know it. He wept over Jerusalem, and their choices. Yet still tried to teach them, even knowing that they would refuse him. Out of love for them, and mercy, and hope.

I only compare him to a father because that is what the bible says he is...not my opinion. I don't believe he has the right to compare himself to a father...a father earns that title...unless of course you count the ones that spread their seed and bugger off...then,I suppose you could count him as one. You are saying that I am comparing him to that...well I believe Jesus called him father...so forgive me for thinking that it would have a similar meaning. Is this just another thing that is misunderstood in the bible?

I'm sorry, I'm tired... and I don't know what prompted this.

I said something along the lines of questioning how you say that we cannot compare God to us (human standards)... yet at the same time holding him to those human standards because we know better? I wasn't sure how you reconciled those two thoughts.

So a father, yes. But not everyone's father... in spirit... because not everyone wants anything to do with him, and some claim another for their father. The bible doesn't refer to God as everyone's father though. Just the opposite in a couple of places.

Peace,

Tammy

tec

Sigh AG and Tec. Shall I instead use the word zealous and see if you can misuse that word to try and portray yourselves as victims of an arrogant atheist.

lol

I wasn't thinking of myself as a victom of the arrogant atheist. Just wondered what you meant by using it. Because it tends to be used to describe someone who pushes their beliefs onto others... sometimes violently, often uninvited. If you just meant someone with strong... unorthodoX/non-mainstream... faith, then no problem.

Tec - I am a skeptic. I was once a believer. Do you understand?

Yes, I do understand. What I'm not so sure about is your point. What does that have to do with any of the answers to your questions that I have continued to answer? What does it have to do with the fact that I have changed many of my faith based beliefs when confronted with evidence that they are wrong? I just haven't changed them to the same thing you changed yours to.

since he doesn't deign to talk to mankind.

Because you didn't e X perience it, does that mean it can't happen?

Peace,

Tammy

An Old Argument.... does it hold water?

Share this