by AK - Jeff 1495 Replies latest jw experiences
Wings? Go ahead, ask me.
I'm sorry. I should qualify that.
He has wings... for me.
Hands, I said he doesn't have hands? I am so sorry. I know about his wings, but his hands I have not given any thought of till now. Of course he has hands. He has hands.
For humans to truly have free will (ie; to be 100% self-determined in their action) . . . requires 100% unpredictability.
Why does it mean this?
I truly do not follow this reasoning.
If I know that my son is going to choose to play video games while I am at work, instead of doing his homework as he is supposed to be doing ... I have in no way interfered with his free will, simply by knowing what choice he is going to make based on behavioral observations.
Omnicience... God knows everything that is happening; God knows everything that will ever happen with everyone. Can't say that I believe this. We all get the chance to answer for ourselves. Sometimes we might even surprise God. Sometimes please Him, sometimes disapoint him.
Just as my son might one day suprise me by working on his homework instead of choosing video games one of these days ;)
Peace,
Tammy
One of the very biggest problems with everything is people just won't ask, when it becomes important to ask. Are we harboring inaccuracies because we just believe it is not important to ask? I think it's important.
Do you mean, Nancy, that he will give you wings to fly (fool)? Nope. It's wings to get under. Chicken wings. It's true.
Matthew 23:37 http://biblos.com/matthew/23-37.htm
It has been revealed to me that some one out there heard* me call him/her a fool. HaHa ROTFL. I'm sorry to do it twice. It was you calling me the fool.
*more accurately saw (in writing). Again, please accept my apology, not for the first offence (because it wasn't real), but for the second one. Please.
" I TOTALLY changed my opinion about how an atheist COULD be because of some of the non-theists here."
Tammy, Thanks for sharing your generous opinion of atheists on page 46. Give the nature of this thread I am surprised that you had no response to such a reconciliatory and understanding post. Then again perhaps I am not! Understanding another person’s point of view shows empathy not agreement. I never refer to myself as an atheist but I accept that it seems to be a default position for non-theists or those who cannot find evidence that a personal God exists, as defined in most major religions. I prefer to think of myself as an agnostic, if such a thing exists.
The question I ask is simply – Is the universe aware of itself? I believe it may be. Not awareness in the way humans think of awareness due to their overdeveloped right brain function. Such pervading awareness would be aware of the billions galaxies and the existence of life of which it would be a part. It would not be responsible for how the universe unfolds or joy or suffering on our planet. I have read a number of book by Lyle Watson which report on an interconnected ness of all living creatures that goes beyond the know laws of science.
If I were to believe in a personal God I would become angry at his complacency toward suffering on earth. Not just among humans but the carnage and suffering that has been at the centre of all life on earth in its struggle to survive, since the world began. I can accept that’s just the way it is. Survival of the fittest has been the defining intention among all life on earth. Humans and some animals show what we call love to their young and others within their social group. A closer study shows that social animals and humans benefit and survive better when they show ‘love’ to those in their social group. Both animals and humans will turn on those that threaten their existence even if they have loved them. Love is real – as real as being alive.
My personal conclusion is, at present is, that whatever universal awareness exists, it has not yet been explained by major religions or Holy books. If a God, or his Son, is able to personal talk to humans then they would be personal responsible for the well being of humans. That would take away free will and be contrary to how life on earth operates. I can contemplate the idea that an impersonal, impassive awareness exists that is not responsible for suffering or accountable to humans. We as humans could therefore not be held accountable to such a being. Perhaps there are thousand of planets with life on them that come and go over eternity.
The appeal of a personal Father and his son who talks to us is an understandable but a rather human concept. I have stated many times that I envy those who are able to have faith in powerful spiritual friends who have power over life and death. Alas if such a God existed I would be faced with solving the opening question that is the subject of this thread. Debating with other seekers of truth help us to develop empathy and understanidng and all contributions have value. There can be treasure in the seaweed.
That is very well written Glad (can I call you glad?), but it would be because you are a writer. It makes sense.
Thanks, Gladiator. I'm not surprised (the no response thing)... tends to happen a lot, lol... but that's okay. Thank you for responding. Forgive me for my tendancy to merge atheism with agnosticsm-that-leans-toward-atheism or some form of non-personal God. Regardless of what 'category' one might fall under, that category can never do anyone personal justice. I do try (and I think I succeed) to treat everyone as an individual.
Not awareness in the way humans think of awareness due to their overdeveloped right brain function. Such pervading awareness would be aware of the billions galaxies and the existence of life of which it would be a part.
I love this. This 'connection' that you describe. I can 'get a sense' of this connection, of how something like this is possible. Once in a while, I feel such an awareness (right down to my blood and bones)... so your description is close to to my own description in how I am given 'answers' or understanding. Not always, of course. Sometimes I just rely on things I've read or eXperienced, or seen... or my reasoning and thoughts. But every so often, I know. It is calm, it is quiet, and it is sure. It is very different than when I am speaking what I just think I know or understand.
Perhaps you can get a 'sense' of what I mean from your own understanding above.
To go a little further, if you don't mind the stroll... if you think the universe (I say God - in whom all things hold together and have their eXistence, including the universe) is self-aware, and has an awareness of all things (a knowing of all things, because it permeates all things)... then perhaps there are some people/creatures who listen for or sense that being... due to the presence of this awareness/connection already in them?
Perhaps that being even sent someone to those people/creatures, so that they could understand more; know more; see more - perhaps even an image of itself, in terms that man could understand? Such as... well... a man?
Just some thoughts, sparked by your description above :)
Peace,
Tammy
(SIZE!!! I cannot believe I did not mention you in my post. I mean you're right HERE! So sorry, and of course you show compassion and respect for others... and if I hadn't already changed my opinion, you would have helped me to do so. I tend to think of you more as an agnostic with a lean toward theism, though... same as Still Thinking)
tec: then perhaps there are some people/creatures who listen for or sense that being... due to the presence of this awareness/connection already in them?
Intuition of the "Grandness of things" is not only for those who believe in 'god' or 'jesus'
Omnicience... God knows everything that is happening; God knows everything that will ever happen with everyone. Can't say that I believe this. We all get the chance to answer for ourselves. Sometimes we might even surprise God. Sometimes please Him, sometimes disapoint him.
Just as my son might one day suprise me by working on his homework instead of choosing video games one of these days ;)
tec...It bothers me most of all when we compare God to ourselves as being a loving parent...because I don't see this in the world. I see death, starvation, disease and destruction...as a loving parent, if we had the power to do something about it we would. He doesn't. Simple as that. Make all the excuses you like for his lack of involvement. His lack of stepping in tells us a lot about his personality.
A parent that simply watches children die and does NOTHING to help...what would you call that parent? Well thats what God our 'father' does every day...watches children die...and does NOTHING.
And as far as God knowing...he either does or he doesn't...make up your mind...the bible fortells events that will occur...that is how a lot of it is written. I love the way we switch off our brains when it doesn't make sense. He knows into the future...but he doesn't know everything that will happen to everyone...He has the power to answer our prayers...and possibly change our future events...but he has no control over the future...hogwash!!!
We are very limited in the control we have over our children and our lives...God, supposedly is not. How can we possibly compare what we would do to what he can do. If he was a human parent with the abilities he has he would be found lacking. Society would step in and remove his children from him.
