by angel.face 17 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
Hey guys,
Hoping to get your input.
I had a conversation with my DH recently and I asked him what would need to happen for him to question his belief system. He said that something unscripted needs to be taught by the society.
Now there are many things I can bring up...I have heard you suggest not to argue with doctrine...but he is asking for it. I am stuck and don't know what to do. Should we try to get to 1914 in our family worship? should we try to figure out 1919?
What do you think?
Come on guys, 50 views and no suggestions??
Sorry made spelling mistake in first post...it's not 'unscripted' but un-scriptual
That's a pretty deep discussion to have with your desginated hitter. Didn't know baseball players were so deep...
seriously though... you can't force a JW to question their belief system. As long as they want to believe, they're going to. You have to wait until something happens that causes them to question/doubt on their own. Then you can gently push them in the right direction.
Even if you present something "unscriptural" it won't do the trick. Something has to happen or be taught that triggers a response from his brain...not from outside.
Undermining the claim of Holy Spirit Direction. GB directed by HS. Elder/MS appointments directed by HS. Judicial Committee decisions directed by HS. Preaching work directed by HS.
This past Sunday's WT Study is a good place to start.
Start at the local level. I guarantee that you both know of some decisions that SCREAM that God's Holy Spirit could NOT have been directing the decision.
Elders/MS who are malicious, gossippers, lousy fathers, lousy husbands, abusers, drunkards, adulterers, etc. Or, perhaps you are privy to the real facts of a disfellowshipping or reproof of an individual that was clearly NOT RIGHT.
For example, someone reproved who then fades away to inactivity -- why did the HS let them fool the JC into thinking that they were repentant?
Someone DFd for the same kind of "sin", but who faithfully when through all the effort to get reinstated and is doing fantastic now spiritually in the congregation. WHY was that sincere person DFd, but the guy that faded lallowed to stay in and just fade?
OR, someone reinstated, who then FADES, never to be seen again. Why did the HS let the JC be fooled and allow that person to be reinstated when it was clear after the fact that there was nothing sincere on their part to serve Jah again. They just wanted to be rid of the DF title so they could associate with friends and family.
Perhaps there was an elder in your circuit who served for years while at the same time carrying on an adulterous relationship or embezzling scheme. Perhaps even had high positions in the circuit, district, RBC, etc. WHY did the HS let that sin be covered over for so long?
Now..............if the HS is clearly NOT directing things at this level, is it possible that it is also NOT directing anything at the higher levels of WTS? Is it really reasonable that the HS is directing the confusing adjustments in the "generation" doctrine? This is not a continual improved understanding.....it goes here, then there, then back to here, then out of nowhere it goes into the worldly people, then back to here. WTF? WHY IS GOD CREATING DOUBTS IN SINCERE WORSHIPPERS? Is He wanting to sift out the faithful followers of many years by use of flip-flops that undermine a person's faith? Can this all really be FROM GOD? Let your hubby answer that.
DOC
He said that something unscriptual needs to be taught by the society.
COMPARE:
Acts 8 - Philip and the Ethiopian
26 Now an angel of the Lord said to Philip, “Go south to the road—the desert road—that goes down from Jerusalem to Gaza.” 27 So he started out, and on his way he met an Ethiopian [a] eunuch, an important official in charge of all the treasury of the Kandake (which means “queen of the Ethiopians”). This man had gone to Jerusalem to worship, 28 and on his way home was sitting in his chariot reading the Book of Isaiah the prophet. 29 The Spirit told Philip, “Go to that chariot and stay near it.”
30 Then Philip ran up to the chariot and heard the man reading Isaiah the prophet. “Do you understand what you are reading?” Philip asked.
31 “How can I,” he said, “unless someone explains it to me?” So he invited Philip to come up and sit with him.
32 This is the passage of Scripture the eunuch was reading:
“He was led like a sheep to the slaughter,
and as a lamb before its shearer is silent,
so he did not open his mouth.
33 In his humiliation he was deprived of justice.
Who can speak of his descendants?
For his life was taken from the earth.” [b]34 The eunuch asked Philip, “Tell me, please, who is the prophet talking about, himself or someone else?” 35 Then Philip began with that very passage of Scripture and told him the good news about Jesus.
36 As they traveled along the road, they came to some water and the eunuch said, “Look, here is water. What can stand in the way of my being baptized?” [37] [c] 38 And he gave orders to stop the chariot. Then both Philip and the eunuch went down into the water and Philip baptized him. 39 When they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord suddenly took Philip away, and the eunuch did not see him again, but went on his way rejoicing. 40 Philip, however, appeared at Azotus and traveled about, preaching the gospel in all the towns until he reached Caesarea.
WITH:
Flock book page 17
Coordinator of the Body of Elders (description, in part):
- Arranges for elders to review questions with baptismal candidates. If the assigned elder needs to take someone along when meeting with a sister, another elder should be used. However, if needed, a capable ministerial servant may accompany the assigned elder to review the questions in "Part I-Elementary Bible Teachings" and "Part Ill-Jehovah's Arrangement of Things." If the congregation has very few elders, capable ministerial servants who have demonstrated good judgment and discernment may be assigned to review the questions in "Part I- Elementary Bible Teachings" and "Part llI-Jehovah's Arrangement of Things." If the assigned ministerial servant needs to take someone along when meeting with a sister, another capable ministerial servant should be used. In all cases, only elders should be assigned to consider "Part ll-Jehovah's Righteous Requirements."
-Sab
I like both Sab and Desirous' suggestions. You may add to Sab's the idea that Jesus waited until he was 30 and the Borg is dunking little kids.
Does your husband "take the lead" in "Family Worship Night"? Ask him if he would be willing to take the next year and dedicate "Family Worship Night" to reading and discussing the Bible ALONE without ANY literature. You can take turns choosing what scriptures/passages to read and discuss.
If you can get him to agree, then we will have plenty of suggestions for you. If he is unwilling to address God's Word free from the chains of Watchtower interpretation then you're extremely unlikely to reach him via the scriptures. But if he's willing to JUST READ the Bible and discuss what it SAYS, not what the publishing cult in New York interprets it to mean, then you have some hope.
Never discuss doctrine.
Have you read either of Hassan's books?
You can't logically convince someone to leave something like the JW's. There is too much emotional entanglement and dependency like a drug. He like any other human will only discontinue the behavior when it no longer produces a perceived benefit. He will leave quicker if it creates problems. He will never see any of this just because some else can see it.
A couple of things spring to mind that I was quite surprised to find were at odds with the bible:
1. The WT teaches that Jesus is mediator for the 144,000 only and not the great crowd http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/mediator.php
2. The WT teaches that the great crowd is on earth when the bible clearly states they are 'in heaven'. http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/great-crowd-other-sheep.php
3. The biggest one of all is that the bible never mentions an 'organization' http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/organization.php; once my husband read Captives of a Concept by Don Cameron http://www.captivesofaconcept.com/ this really hit home with him.
