When were the annointed resurrected to heaven?

by drewcoul 15 Replies latest jw friends

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  ScenicViewer

  @ Talesin

  There was no mention or disagreement that the man I knew was not of the 144,000, and I never heard the '1935' date mentioned before I got online. Is this something they came up with in the 80s/90s, or was it around beforehand?

  I too knew a Witness in the 70s, who began to partake in her late 20s or early 30s. I think it caused a little silent murmuring, but the general information at the time is that we can't make judgements about who is and isn't anointed so it just became a non-topic of conversation.

  The best Society explanation was that new ones would be anointed to replace unfaithful anointed who had died. Still, the extremely young age didn't make sense.

  And you are right about the Society being fairly certain, but still a little ambiguous on the topic. Now the Organization has backed away completely from mentioning a date when the 144,000 was 'sealed.' It's no wonder, since that date too (1935) has fallen completely apart.
• 

  Farkel

  Many years ago we had an illustrious poster called 'Focus' who was a great researcher and listed literally hundreds of 'classes' from the time of Russell through the time of Freddie. The WTS had a "class" for people who suffered from flatulence, I'm sure.

  Back to this thread: the problem with this topic is a spiritual version of racism. Those anointed mother-fuckers (who were assholes in life) die and go to heaven and get to rule over us for eternity and become immortal and don't have to fuck around with all that testing before Armageddon and AFTER that thousand year bullshit when Satan gets to play with our heads and we can get KILLED after a thousand years of bullshit lion petting and picnics.

  Yep. We stupid "other sheep" have to deal with all that bullshit, and even worse, we have to watch our backs for all of eternity because if we screw up the Watchtower God will assissinate us in "Paradise" if we screw up.

  Meanwhile, those assholes in heaven don't have to worry about that stuff.

  It's racisim or at the very least, favortism, but you know what really pisses me off?

  That whole difference in "RANK' soley depends upon WHEN you were born (as if that was a virtue or a vice and as if you had any control over that)

  Fuck the Watchtower's Insanity, I say, but I say that politely.

  Any sane person knows that when one is born should have no advantage as if the accident of that birth conveys any superiority or advantate over others who were born later.

  But in WatchtowerThink(tm) it means EVERTHING. Those born post-1935 are "Other Sheep" (losers). Those born pre-1935 are "Anonted" (winners) and when they die they become immortal for ever and ever and ever.

  Those pore schmucks who were born after that magical period of 1935 are screwed, and it is al their fault because of when they were born. They have to suffer through Armageddon, and spend a thousand years dong picnics and then get good ol' Satan fucking with them, and after all of that they cannot fuck up because God will KILL them.

  So the poor other sheep losers will live in eternal fear of pissing off the God who just loves to kill his kids and the anointed morons are sitting at the right hand of the guy who allegedly set up this whole scenario. Simply because they just happened to be born before 1935. Lucky 'Kings and Princes at the Right Hand of Christ Because-You-just-happened-to-be-born-before-the-magical-Watchtower-printing-corporation-date-of-1935!

  Have a cookie, lucky ones!

  Farkel
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  talesin

  Yah, kinda like the "Founding Fathers",,, so your family landed on the Mayflower. Whoop-tee-doo!
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  AGuest

  What about Paul, the canonical apostles, church leaders? Paul and Peter have just been rotting in the ground all these centuries? It makes no sense at all.

  My sincere apologies, dear BOTR (peace to you!). I didn't go into as much detail as I should have. When one dies, the physical body returns to the dust (unless it is completely burned; notice, completely, as in not even dust left); however, the spirit goes to one of two (2) places... and "sleeps" (is unconscious):

  1. For those who belong to my Lord, the Holy One of Israel, when they die, the spirit goes "under the altar"... which, although a place of "protection" is OUTSIDE the Holy AND Most Holy of the spirit realm. There, they are given spirit bodies ("white robes", which can manifest as flesh OR spirit), which they will be resurrected to. They are not immediately resurrected to those bodies, however, but told to "rest [sleep] a while longer"... until the choosing of their brothers has been completed (which it has not been, yet). Later, they are resurrected in such bodies, at the same time as those who belong to my Lord but have not died are changed to the same kind of bodies (white "robes");

  2. For those who do not belong to my Lord when they die, the spirit goes to the World of the dead (aka Hades/Sheol). There, they wait until the SECOND resurrection, at which time they are returned to physical bodies (as seen by Ezekiel, and looked forward to by Israel prior to the coming of my Lord and HIS offer... to share rulership of his kingdom). In such bodies, they must participate in "Judgment Day"... at which time those of these who have their names written in the Lamb's Book (of Life)... are also given spirit bodies (white robes) and granted entry into the kingdom. Since death is the cost/wage/price for sin... these, whose names are NOT written in the Lamb's Book and so whose sins have no "covering"... are judged (according to their "bad" deeds, which stand uncovered/blotted out). As a result of such judgment, they are condemned to everlasting death (of the body) and destruction (of the spirit)... in the lake of fire (Gehenna).

  So, while it is true that both Peter and Paul's physical bodies did indeed "rot" (saw corruption) in the grave... it is of no concern as "the flesh is of no use, at all." Rather, it is the spirit that is life(giving)... and so their spirits are merely sleeping. Under the altar.

  I hope this helps and, again, bid you peace!

  A slave of Christ,

  SA
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  blondie

  In their lastest history book: Jehovah’s Witnesses: Proclaimers of God’s Kingdom published in 1993, the book shows that the founder of the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society [now the legal representatives of Jehovah's Witnessesses] Charles Taze Russell, taught that the resurrection began in 1878:

  [The Bible Students] concluded that … the resurrection to spirit life of those already sleeping in death began then.

  “Based on the premise that events of the first century might find parallels in related events later, they [the early Bible Students associated with C. T. Russell] also concluded that if Jesus’ baptism and anointing in the autumn of 29 C.E. paralleled the beginning of an invisible presence in 1874, then his riding into Jerusalem as King in the spring of 33 C.E. would point to the spring of 1878 as the time when he would assume his power as heavenly King. They also thought they would be given their heavenly reward at that time. When that did not occur, they concluded that since Jesus’ anointed followers were to share with him in the Kingdom, the resurrection to spirit life of those already sleeping in death began then.” Proclaimers, Page 632

  Russell taught this for the remaining years of his life. The Watchtower Society was still teaching this in 1925:

  It is the understanding of the consecrated that the sleeping saints were resurrected in 1878. [Watchtower 2/1/25, Page 371]

  By 1927, however, the Watchtower Society said:

  … the resurrection of the sleeping saints did not take place in 1878. [4]

  “It seems impossible to find anything in these parallel events to indicate the resurrection of the sleeping saints in 1878… Again referring to the quotation from Volume III: The conclusion there reached, that the parallels bear upon the resurrection of the saints, results from the assumption that the Lord was supposed to have taken his power and begun his reign in 1878, and that therefore he would resurrect his saints at approximately the same time. But there is nothing to indicate that Jesus Christ took his power and began his reign in 1878. He could not consistently do so until the expiration of the Gentile Times… the Gentile Times ended in 1914, and the nations were angry, and it was the Lord’s due time to take possession and oust Satan. Seeing then that the Scriptures conclusively prove that the Lord Jesus Christ did not take his great power and begin his reign in 1878, but that he did so in 1914, it follows that the resurrection of the sleeping saints did not take place in 1878.” Watchtower 5/15/27, Page 151

  "In the year 1878, the dead in Christ were resurrected, as shown by number 8. It was time for them to be engaged in kingdom work. In that same year a call was issued for the saints on this side of the "veil" to come out of Babylon. The 1845 years of fleshly Israel's disfavor ended in 1878." Explanation of Chart Representing the Plan of the Ages

  http://jwfacts.com/watchtower/1800s.php

  1918

  Watchtower January 1, 2007, 'The First Resurrection - Now Under Way!' p.28, after talking about Bible parallels:

  "Three and a half years later, in the spring of 33 C.E., he was resurrected as a mighty spirit person. Could it, then, be reasoned that since Jesus was enthroned in the fall of 1914, the resurrection of his faithful anointed followers began three and a half years later, in the spring of 1918? That is an interesting possibility. Although this cannot be directly confirmed in the Bible, it is not out of harmony with other scriptures that indicate that the first resurrection got under way soon after Christ's presence began."

  Contrast that with the soon-to-be-studied-again 'Revelation Climax' statement:

  "All the evidence indicates that this heavenly resurrection began in 1918, after Jesus' enthronement in 1914 ..." (p.103)
• 

  Listener

  Interesting quotes Blondie. Basically they are speculating, something they tell everyone else not to do. So really a JW would have to answer "Well we are not really sure, but the GB thinks it might be ....based on these reasons"