by lilbluekitty 20 Replies latest jw friends
loh-
Yes the JWs will use that expression and the Greatest Man book is one of the most popular among Witnesses. In the Saturday program I attended Jesus was mentioned or read from 3 times. Where the discrepency comes from is the teaching that Jesus is the Mediator only for the 144,000, and only they are in the New Covenant. The Other Sheep are associates only and that results in Jehovah being the one a Other Sheep class person is connected to.
To say that he (Jesus) was never mentioned is just wrong.
Fair enough......but, you have to admit the JW's are unbalanced in the amount of attention Jesus should rightfully be given in the religion.
Think About It
Of course the JWs have a problem with Jesus. He won't do what they tell him to! For 130 years, they've been deciding when it would be appropriate for him to come and he won't. They've rejected his example for just about everything. They've sided with the Pharisees, who were Jesus' enemies. They've pulled a "Korah" and usurped Jesus' position as head of the congregation. They've decided the "FDS" (whoever that is supposed to be) is hand-picked and directed by God, leaving Jesus out of the loop. Jesus has no place in JWs, because the Governing Body took it. After decades of being told "You people don't believe in Jesus", they've started paying lip service to the only-begotten son of God, to whom every knee shall bow. But, in reality, to the JW leaders, he's an inconvenience and a thorn in their sides.
Lilbluekitty,
Just want to make sure that you got my PM.
Thanks.
After 38 years as a JW, I am not sure if an angry God of the OT or carpenter from Nazareth or a self-appointed FDS really matter to me anymore. None of them helped me find the two jobs I have, help me with my health problems or help me pay off the huge debt that I have or the every day bills that I face. That is my focus and the only thing that helps me on a consistent basis is money.
I was born-in. My father was rabidly antiCatholic. I must have been two or three when he started teaching me how rotten Catholics were, primarily b/c of the Trinity. Short story. I left when I was 16 when my father died. Studied New Testament in college. Became a member of a mainstream denomination where, despite historical documents, the Trinity was a loose conception of God, the incomprehensible. Heard about Ray Franz' book on Regis Philbin show in NYC. Read Franz' book. First, I became aware that Witnesses aren't considered Christians by almost every scholar.The Trinity now makes sense to me. It seems that Christology, Jesus' humanity/divinity/whatever in some combination, is central to Christianity. He is much demoted in the Witnesses. As I recall, I heard just as many Old Testament scriptures as New Testament ones. Now I hear mostly Gospels and Paul. Christ is very central.
It has to do with my personal belief. Perhaps I'm wrong. My mom was baptized in the 1930s in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Anyway, this was her recall when she questioned an Episcopal priest about proper baptism format.
@Ding, yes I got your PM, thank you. I was having trouble reading it at first and had to keep refreshing because I was getting blank or error pages but eventually was able to read it. Thank you, I will try it out =)
Thanks everyone.
This is a separate subject but I guess I can only post one thread a day here so my other question is I'm wondering if my baptism was valid? I got dunked in 2003 so I had the newer set of vow questions which included a bit about the organization but no real mention of the Father/Son/Holy Spirit in the same sentence so I'm a little confused about that. My husband is born-again and is unsure of the validity of it, too. I dedicated myself to Jehovah four years earlier (I have anxiety problems so I didn't get baptized right away) but if I want to be a Christian do I need to dedicate my life to God and Christ? I'm not sure.
I dedicated myself to Jehovah four years earlier (I have anxiety problems so I didn't get baptized right away) but if I want to be a Christian do I need to dedicate my life to God and Christ? I'm not sure.
You must be born again. That is what Jesus told Nicodemus.
When you get born again you get a new spirit... and a new destiny.
1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Band on the Run: It was only when I read Ray Franz's book that I had an epiphany that the Witnesses are Jehovists not Christian.
They most certainly don't meet the definition and if one compares their doctrine with true Christianity, it is virtually the opposite in all the major areas.
I suppose they are Christian from self-reporting but their take on Jesus is radically different.
Quite the understatement. They believe he was a man, nothing more and nothing less, which is heresy and arianism.
Another thread mentioned that Jesus was a spirit.
Are you referring to the Word? The preincarnate Jesus was, and is, God-man. Jesus was a divine person who assumed a human nature.
May I be lazy and ask what sort of spirit?
The Word was God the Son, the Second Person of the Holy Trinity.
Did the pre-Jesus of Nazareth co-create?
All things were created by him, through him and for him. Col. Chapter 1 and John 1.
So what did Jesus do when he hung out in heaven?
Preincarnate, there was no Jesus. I think you are confusing immanent with economic trinity. http://www.144000.110mb.com/trinity/index.html#2
What happened to his spirit form when he was on earth?
The manner in which the Word merged with the human is not known and is taken on faith.
Was he truly human or did he only appear human?
He was fully human, fully God and fully man. The God-man that is the hypostatic union. http://www.144000.110mb.com/trinity/index.html#3
The outside world is so Jesus driven that I find it difficult to sort out the Witness Jesus. It seems to me that the Christology is the basis for the rest of their beliefs.
They don't have the Jesus of the New Testament. Everything they teach in this regard is false. http://www.144000.110mb.com/trinity/index.html#5
The problem lies at the feet of the NT writers and compilers who knowingly misinterpreted the Hebrew scriptures to fit their new religion. Time and again Rabbis tried to help their christian neighbors without much success. Even Origen admits the Rabbis taught him the real meaning of Isaiah 53 was not about a messiah. Raymundus Martini, 13th century, continued and promoted what became the prevailing antisemitism cornered in the misquotes and misinterpretations of the NT.
