Curious: How Does 1 Tim 6:4 Appear in the Interlinear Greek (aka "purple bible")?

by DarioKehl 14 Replies latest watchtower scandals

  • DarioKehl

    We've all seen the line-by-line comparison of John 1:1 with the addition of "a god" when "was God" is visible in the left margin under "theos" in the infamous Grimace/Barney/Grape Crush Purple Bible book. I'd check for myself, but unfortunately, I hastily rid my house of all things WT in a purging fit while beginning my fade. And let me tell you, the fire was spectacular! Had I known I'd become an apostate later, "mentally diseased" about critical anaylisis and research, I would have never parted with those books. I could KICK MYSELF for doing that because I got rid of the best weapons in my arsenal--their own words. Sooooo.... I was wondering if the phrase "mentally diseased" appears under the Greek words in the left margin.

    If not, how come this has never been an issue before? We've surely covered this scrpiture in past WT publications. How is it that the bOrg hasn't used this "gem" until 2011? If it's always been in the Bible (well...their bible), why haven't we seen them using "mentally diseased" as part of their regular vernacular since Rutherford's regime? If they have in the past, why is it creating such a stir now?

  • alanv

    The expression 'mentally diseased is not taken from the bible (any bible). It is from the July 15th 2011 Watchtower.

    There it is being applied to people (they call apostates) who leave the organisation and actively speak against the governing body, to the extent of gaining followers for themselves.

    However in the past the society view as apostates, anyone who just speaks out against the org. It has not mattered if they had followers or not. In fact in 1980 they said in an elders letter that just believing something different doctrinally could make someone an apostate. See below

    September 1, 1980


    Dear Brothers:

    Keep in mind that to be disfellowshiped, an apostate does not have to be a promoter of apostate views. As mentioned in paragraph two, page 17 of the August 1, 1980, Watchtower, "The word 'apostasy' comes from a Greek term that means 'a standing away from,' 'a falling away, defection,' 'rebellion, abandonment. Therefore, if a baptized Christian abandons the teachings of Jehovah, as presented by the faithful and discreet slave, and persists in believing other doctrine despite Scriptural reproof, then he is apostatizing. Extended, kindly efforts should be put forth to readjust his thinking. However, if, after such extended efforts have been put forth to readjust his thinking, he continues to believe the apostate ideas and rejects what he has been provided through the 'slave class, then appropriate judicial action should be taken.

    I too got rid of most of my books when I left. However most are available on line now. Just google the one you want.

  • man oh man
    man oh man

    Kingdom Interlinear 1 Tim 6:4

    he has been mad to smoke nothing knowing well but being diseased about seekings and word fights out of which (things) comes to be envy, strife, blasphemies, suspicions wicked,

  • wobble

    I think some arrogant smart -arse in the writing department thought he could use the words as he did with impunity.

    As he was borrowing the words from the NWT he thought he would get away with using them directly against "Apostates"and others, to further demonise those who have left the WT to the R&F JW's.

    As has been shown, Freddie Franz's use of the words in his "translation" is totally not justified. They do not convey the original thought of the Greek.

    I wonder if Mad Freddie hoped they would be interpreted in the minds of readers as the Writing Dept used them, I would not put it past the old sod, enough of his NWT (Not Well Translated, for that, thanks to another poster) is filled with poor renderings deliberately designed to support his weird theology, perhaps this one was not just his inept grasp of the GK, but was deliberate.

  • DarioKehl

    Anthony Morris---johnny on the spot! Thank you, sir, yoou rock! Wow... anyone see the difference? DANNNNG. Ok, this is deep!

  • man oh man
    man oh man

    Diaglott says instead of being diseased says being sick.

  • moggy lover
    moggy lover

    1 Tim 6:4 in KIT:

    "He has been made to smoke, nothing knowing well, but being diseased about seekings and word fights, out of which [things] comes to be envy, strife, blasphemies, suspicions wicked"

    In Marshall's Interlinear:

    "He has been puffed up, understanding nothing, but being diseased about questionings and battles of words out which comes envy, strife, blasphemies, evil suspicions"

    The word in dispute in this context is "noseo" a verb meaning, according to the Complete Word Study Dictionary of the NT [by Spiros Zhodiates]:

    "From "nosos" a sickness. To be sick, delirious. It is used metaphorically, meaning to have a sickly longing for something, to pine after, dote on".

    The Watchtower rendering of "Mentally diseased" is probably an over translation, made to envision opposers to Watchtower teachings as not just wrong, but also to be wrong due to a mental aberration that refuses to acknowledge the Watchtower leadership as theological supremos in terms of ultimate truth.

    Does this word carry a connotation of "mental" ailment in that the person is considered to be clinically insane? Or is it being used purely metaphorically for those who treat the apostle's instructions lightly?

    Thayer suggests: "Metaph. of any ailment of the mind, and when used with "peri" [a word meaning "about" as in 1 Tim 6:4 - my own comments] means to be taken with such an interest in a thing as amounts to a disease, to have a morbid fondness for"

    In this respect a perfectly good English equivalent for the Greek would be "being obsessed"

    Naturally in the hermetically sealed world of exclusive Watchtower values, they have it both ways:

    1. When they have an obsession over trivials such as whether Jesus died on a cross or stake, or where a comma should go, or where even the indefinite article is placed, it is theological rectitude.

    2. But when opposers rightly excercise the option of presenting an alternative view to Watchtower absolutes, they are seen as being obsessed.

    Go figure.

  • AnthonyMorrisXIII

    'Sickness' is perfectly accepable. It seems that the two words disease and sickness, are interchangeable in everyday speech.

    Inserting the word 'mentally' (NWT, 1 Tim. 6:4), is taking a bit of a liberty with translation. But then to blanket apply 'mentally diseased' to all who disagree or who leave the JWs is offensive and stupid.

    Miriam Webster: Sickness (noun):
    1. Impairment of normal physiological function affecting part or all of an organism.[Wordnet]
    2. Defectiveness or unsoundness; "drugs have become a sickness they cannot cure"; "a great sickness of his judgment".[Wordnet]
    3. The state that precedes vomiting.[Wordnet]
    4. The quality or state of being sick or diseased; illness; sisease or malady.[Websters]
    5. Nausea; qualmishness; as, sickness of stomach.[Websters].

    Miriam Webster: Disease (noun):
    1. An impairment of health or a condition of abnormal functioning.[Wordnet]
    2. Lack of ease; uneasiness; trouble; vexation; disquiet.[Websters]
    3. An alteration in the state of the body or of some of its organs, interrupting or disturbing the performance of the vital functions, and causing or threatening pain and weakness; malady; affection; illness; sickness; disorder; -- applied figuratively to the mind, to the moral character and habits, to institutions, the state, etc.[Websters].

    Miriam Webster: Disease (verb):
    1. To deprive of ease; to disquiet; to trouble; to distress.[Websters]
    2. To derange the vital functions of; to afflict with disease or sickness; to disorder; -- used almost exclusively in the participle diseased.[Websters]
    3. Base verb from the following inflections: diseasing, diseased, diseases, diseaser, diseasers, diseasingly and diseasedly.[Eve - graph theoretic]

    akin to Lat. nocere, "to injure" (Eng., "nosology"), is the regular word for "disease, sickness," Matt. 4:23; 8:17; 9:35; 10:1, RV, "disease," AV, "sickness;" in Matt. 4:24; Mark 1:34; Luke 4:40; 6:17; 9:1; Acts 19:12, AV and RV render it "diseases." In Luke 7:21, AV has "infirmities." The most authentic mss. omit the word in Mark 3:15. See SICKNESS.

    Other translations on 1 Timothy 6:4

    New American Standard Bible (©1995)
    he is conceited and understands nothing; but he has a morbid interest in controversial questions and disputes about words, out of which arise envy, strife, abusive language, evil suspicions,

    King James Bible
    He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,

    Douay-Rheims Bible
    He is proud, knowing nothing, but sick about questions and strifes of words; from which arise envies, contentions, blasphemies, evil suspicions,


  • AnthonyMorrisXIII

    @moggy lover__probably an over translation,....good English equivalent for the Greek would be "being obsessed"

    Excellent ML

    (Sorry, didn't see your post before posting)


  • DarioKehl

    there's no way JWs can honestly claim "context" in this case. The greek word for disease is different from the greek word in Matthew. And nothing involving "mind" or "mental" is in the 1 Tim scripture, it's just implied within that greek synonym. It just seems like the GB has had this "weapon" all along but held off on using it til July 2011. That's what perplexes me.

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