The Organisation - Did they stumble you?

by TimothyT 10 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • TimothyT

    But whoever stumbles one of these little ones who put faith in me, it is more beneficial for him to have hung around his neck a millstone such as is turned by an ass and to be sunk in the wide, open sea. (Matthew 18:6)

    How many of you were like humble little children in the organisation, happily going along with things but then realising something was amiss? Maybe you did (or even didn’t do) something wrong and were disfellowshipped despite your humility. Maybe you asked too many honest hearted questions and were branded an apostate. In any case, what does this scripture say about those who stumble such honest hearted ones? Would it not be better for them to be cast into the sea with a millstone hung around their necks?

    It occurred to me before, that many who have been disfellowshipped from the organisation discontinue any personal study of the bible and a relationship with God. They feel they are not worthy anymore as the organisation tells them they can’t and they are wasting their time if they even try.

    Sounds to me like they are stumbling others…

    Timmy xxx

  • N.drew

    I don't have much to say about it. I am posting because I have a box to post in, that has been appearing and disappearing all day. It might be my last chance to say hello, and goodbye.

    That stumbling thing is the problem. You have people doing bad things*, that are not so obviously bad, but they are doing them because they were told to do them.

    *A brother at convention said "soon six billion hearts will stop beating". I think that was two years ago. So who did the stumbling if there was stumbling? The brother who said it, the organization that said to say it or both? And isn't the brother saying it being stumbled?

    What does stumbling mean? What does "little one" mean? I think "little one" means new, not child-like humble. That's my opinion.

    I shall look it up. I have enjoyed your wonderful curiosity Timothy!

  • TimothyT

    Have a look at the original greek words to understand what they mean!

    I reccomend Blue Letter Bible!

    Timmy xxx

  • N.drew

    "a child under training"

    The actual verse Matthew 18:6 does not say child, it is imlpied by Matthew 18:5 which means "in training",

    understood as youth to age 20 (from Stong's Concordance).

    We are all under training, it is true, but "honest hearted" is JW speak.

  • TimothyT

    Interesting! The King James version uses Strong's G3398 - mikros.


    "small little," is translated "the least" in Act 8:10; Hbr 8:11, with reference to rank or influence.
    See LITTLE, A, No. 1.

    Does this refer to the least as in those humble?

    << Matthew 18 >>
    King James Version

    1 At the same time came the disciples unto Jesus, saying, Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven? 2 And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them, 3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven. 4 Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven. 5 And whoso shall receive one such little child in my name receiveth me. 6 But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, andthat he were drowned in the depth of the sea.

    Verse 4 talks about humility too.

    Anyway, the point is that those who are humble, and as you rightfuly say, in training, should not be stumbled. When do we stop recieving training though?

  • IsaacJ22

    I found it interesting that several people at my old congregation kept getting the meaning of this one wrong, even though the Society has cited it in the proper context before. They kept thinking it was about people who left the Society, not those who helped chase us out. (Figures.) I naturally heard about this one when I first decided to stop attending meetings. You can imagine how impressed I was to hear pioneers quoting it, in the wrong context, about me to my wife.

    As to your question, I would like to point out--in a way that I hope won't be misinterpreted--that this is an assumption that many people make about atheists, or nonbelievers of all stripes who used to be believers. That is, the assumption that we've all just had a bad religious experience and need to get over it. (You didn't say that, but that's how the assumption often goes.) I would like to suggest that, for some of us, it's far too simple a question to really cover all the basics. But here's something relevant that might be of interest.

    When I left the KH, I still believed in God. I just wasn't so sure that the WTS was his organization anymore. I prayed about it after I left because I was hoping for divine guidance. It took about a decade for me to really see myself as an atheist. It is true that I didn't move on to another faith, however. Part of this, in the beginning, was because my problems with the WTS weren't exactly theological. They were more with the org's arrogance and attitude toward itself. Plus I wasn't ready to go the extra step of becoming an apostate, especially since my wife and in-laws were all Witnesses. By the time that didn't worry me anymore, religion held a very different place in my mind.

    Ultimately, the organization didn't rob me of my faith in any direct sense; it made me wary of joining just any old group. I wanted to know where things had gone wrong and I wanted to know better next time, if there was a next time. So I spent a lot more time reading about religions and philosophy to better understand what I was getting into. I was also researching the Society's writings, which led me down paths I might not have taken.

    Eventually, I came across the writings of atheists and found them far more compelling than those of apologists/believers. So while the Society made an indirect contribution to my atheism, it didn't exactly stumble me altogether. It urged me to try harder, and the result was unexpected. The harassment of JWs that followed my decision to leave the KH played a part too. I might have let the thing go if they hadn't pestered me so incessantly.

  • N.drew

    παιδ?ον child Matthew 18:6

    μικρο? least Hebrews 8:11

    Does your Bible say least at Matthew 18:6?

  • PSacramento

    One of the worse things anyone can do is to stumble another from belief in God, or to believe in a false God.

    Second only to blaspheming against the Holy Spirit.

    Now, this doens't apply to a person that askes a question in earnest or casts doubts in earnest or even apply to the atheist that doesn't believe because he/she truly sees no reason or evidence to believe.

    It applies more directly to the believer that cause another to LOSE belief or to believe in what is NOT God.

  • WTWizard

    Telling me to just meet men was enough. After that, it didn't matter whether they were doctrinally accurate or not--that alone blew my support for the religion and the congregation.

    And now I find out that there are major doctrinal problems--and I am not willing to look the other way, after their ordering me to just meet men at a$$emblies. In fact, I am willing to play them for the maximum of damage to the congregation--and organization. Hopefully those scumbags ordering me to just meet men are 100% dependent on the organization when it fails them. And I hope that I get the opportunity to expatriate, and those particular scumbags end up under the gun from the hounder-hounder-hounder to find me and get me back, only to get led on a wild goose chase halfway around the world. (Will it be the other side of the country? Canada? Spain? Chile? Australia? New Zealand? Singapore? Hong Kong? Norway? South Africa? I will let Brother Hounder waste his time guessing where it will be.)

  • TimothyT

    Cool... thanks for your responses. My bible says least of these!

    Isaac that is very interesting. I suppose the point im trying to make is that the WTS may have affected some in a negative way, but others positive. Personaly, they have made me question everything about them and in so doing, i have become much more spiritual. Im happy that it was the same for you too, and i ABSOLUTELY respect the fact that you have read books and looked into it. Your choices and beliefs have been based on good solid research. If the WTS helped you to realise the truth about everything then i dont suppose you would blame them. In many ways, im very grateful that they disfellowshipped me because i wouldnt be at this happy stage in my life now. HEHE!!! I just wonder though... when they disfellowship someone and he loses his spirituality completely because of it would God be angry and the whole mill stone thing?

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