Thankyou J. Hofer for the link. I bookmarked it. For later.
Can some one please explain to me what that whole 144,000 thing was about?
Here is my take on this:
Russell's Bible Students started out as a small group that came to believe they were the only true Christians.
How could it be that there were so FEW true Christians?
The 144,000 in Revelation was a convenient number latch onto to convince them that the number of true believers was small and that Russell's followers were this special group.
When the WTS' numbers exploded far beyond 144,000 under Rutherford, what could he do?
Why, then he focused on the "great crowd" language.
But what about the 144,000 then?
Rutherford decided there were two classes of Christians and that the 144,000 were a special, anointed "little flock" to whom the "new birth" and "heavenly hope" of the NT applied.
These NT promises weren't for the "great crowd," but the "great crowd" would get earthly benefits by associating with the anointed in Jehovah's theocratic organization.
In contrast to this I believe the Bible really teaches:
-- The New Covenant (including the necessity for a new birth) is for all Christians, not just a select group of 144,000.
-- The 144,000 are only mentioned in a couple of places in Revelation; nowhere does the NT equate them with the "little flock." At the time Jesus addressed his followers as "little flock," they WERE just a little flock. But one day there would be a great crowd of them. Jesus wasn't announcing a two class system. .
-- The 144,000 are a special group of Jewish Christians in the last days with special witnessing duties during the tribulation. They are not the only ones going to heaven and not a select group of JWs. (In fact, it's clear that in Revelation 7 these 144,000 are all on earth at that time, not in heaven.}
-- Revelation 19:1ff. says that the heavenly Jerusalem will come down from heaven and that God will dwell there with his people. It seems to me to be saying that at that time the distinction between heaven and earth will be abolished (i.e. heaven and earth will be united) and the Bible promises regarding heaven AND earth will be fulfilled for all believers from both the OT and NT eras (This is consistent with the statement in Hebrews 11:16 that Abraham and the OT faithful were longing for a HEAVENLY city and with Jesus' statement in Matthew 8:11 that his followers would be with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven.)
If you'd like to discuss any of this further via PM, feel free.
Correction: I said Revelation 19:1ff refers to the distinction of heaven and earth being abolished. I mean Revelation 21:1ff. Sorry for the error.
I can't beleive that someone grew up as a JW and never understood the 144k doctrine.
They don't make JW kids like they used to anymore!
Dont blame them Broken Promises!
I generaly switched off when they stopped talking about Jesus and started talking about prophecy and numerology.
Im sure many of my old JW peers can explain it perfectly. :)
This is what i recall:
Jesus will take 144000 people from the earth and they will rule in heaven. There are only about 9000 left. Thats about all i know.
So much for the WTS's insistence that small children must be dragged along to all the meetings, assemblies etc.
TimothyT's experiences here only demonstrate that most of it goes clean over their heads!
Timothy: Do you recall hearing about a 'Great Crowd' when you attended meetings?
144,000 is the number of harmonic resonance in sacred geometry. No it is not a literal number, it is the frequency needed to attain ascension into the 4th and 5th dimensions.
Broken Promises and Bungi Bill - Thanks for your comments, but i wouldnt be so quick to label all jw kids as not understanding the 144000 thingy, or that all of this goes right over their heads.
I am a very odd exception and therefore i am not a good specimen. I think the reason why is because when theyd talk about such things, id switch straight off. Generaly i did this from a young age when they stopped talking about Jesus and focused incessantly on stuff which to me did not appear scriptural. They picked bits out from the bible and pulled them together to make something new. I have never agreed with that, so i didnt listen.
The Great Crowd - The ones who will live on earth. I have it on good authority that they dont need to read the bible as its not for them but they listen to the 144000 who tell them what it says. I dont believe that. I can read it and apply it how i want too.