Why are alcoholics and pedophiles not treated the same in the JW’s

by life is to short 6 Replies latest watchtower child-abuse

  • life is to short
    life is to short

    This is a question I have asked repeatedly from the elders in my hall and even from Bethel and have never received an answer. I know this post is long but it is still a valid question so stay with me if you wish.

    Let me explain what I mean. If a person were to have been put in prison for drank driving in which someone was killed or seriously injured and then while that person was in prison he or she learned the "truth" if then when released from prison this person started to attend a local congregation would the elders try to push it under the rug like they do child molesters. We have a prison where I live that has a high number of child molesters and the elder do try to hide their pasts when they come out would the same be for alcoholics?

    What would happen to that alcoholic if he or she bought a liquor store and moved into it, came to every meeting with a bottle of booze in his pocket where you could clearly see it. Would that person be used in the hall? Would they be allowed to run the mikes, or hand out magazines? Would they be allowed to pioneer? Would they even be allowed to go out in service with their bottle or booze? Would the elders try push it under the rug? If this person were to move to another congregation would they not send any cards on his or her past hoping it would just die away?

    This is what happens to pedophiles. We had one pedophile move into the hall I was in that I just happened to know by chance that he was a child molester. The former hall did not send any records on him for over three months. This pedophile learned the "truth" while he was in prison and as soon as he got released he found a woman in the "truth" to marry him who had a little girl. So he was living in a house with the drug of his choose a child. This wife number 2 pioneered while they were married so he appeared to be a happily married man in good standing in the hall. This marriage ended in a divorce and then this pedophile brother was able to find plenty of other JW women to marry him with you guessed it little girls. He was engaged at least to two other JW women before settling on one with a little girl and they had a child together you guessed it a little girl. This women also pioneered so again he looked at a happy family man in good standing in the religion.

    I run into him shortly after we had come back from Bethel at an assembly and he came running up to my husband and I with his bio child in his arms, his stepdaughter by the hand and two other little girls all under the age of nine. It was like he was flaunting it to me as he seemed very proud of himself with all those little girls around him. He knew I totally knew of his past. I was sick and just walked away. At the time he and his then wife lived in a different state and my husband assured me that it was not as it looked. That the elders were keeping him in check in regards to the little girls.

    What is the difference between this pedophile and an alcoholic brother who would carry around four bottles of booze at an assembly?

    This is not the only pedophile "brother" who could find JW women to marry them. We had another whose record said he raped an eight year old girl yet as soon as he got out of prison he had JW women fighting over him. One sister who had three little girls under the age of 12 at the time and wanted to marry him but another sister who had a 12 year girl old got him instead.

    Imagine if you had been in an auto accident involving a drunk driver and had been seriously injured so badly that you had to use a walker or wheelchair to get around in for the rest of your life. Then this alcoholic brother moves in and openly talks about living in his liquor store and has his bottles of booze with him at all times, while giving talks, going out in service and driving a car, etc. Can you imagine if you were to get upset and say something to an elder about it bothering you and then to have the elder ask you if this brother was the one who caused your accident? When you said no but that you do know for a fact that someone with a serious drinking problem should not be around alcohol and you find it offensive that this brother is coming to the meeting with bottles of booze on him the elder then turns on you and says to you "what about 1 Corinthians 6: 9-11? You cannot just assume that this brother is drinking just because he likes to have bottles of booze with him. If you keep this up you could be DF'ed for causing division in the hall.

    Or could you imagine if this alcoholic brother was re-arrested for drunk driving to have an elder give in his public talk that is was just a miscarriage of justice calling the alcoholic brother a gentle giant.

    Or even having an elder tell you well did you know that the brother really is not guilty. When you say to this elder 'well he served 8 years in prison' as you have seen his internet profile the elder says 'yes but he still did not do it he only took the rap for his son who was really the one driving.' 'When the police got there he claimed to be the driver to save his son. It is just like David and Absalom in the Bible. How David loved his son Absalom so much, it may not have been right but David still had Jehovah's favor.'

    These things happened to me. I was asked several times if this pedophile had been the one to molest me when I was a child. When I said "no" then I was asked why did he bother me so much? When I told the elders that 95 percent of child molesters do not stop and that they need to stay away from children I was told that was worldly wisdom.

    When one of the child molesters was released from prison an elder in his public talk said he moved into a home of a JW straight from prison and never left the house for over a week yet the police came and re-arrested him for breaking parole. The elder says in his talk that it was impossible because he never left the house. No where in the talk does this elder say that this brother had been in prison for child rape you only know he had been in prison. I found out later that it had been for child rape. So listening to this talk you really do feel sorry for this poor brother and this elder loooves to give this talk. He gives it at least twice a year if he can. In the talk he calls this pedophile a gentle giant who had a miscarriage of justice and yet this poor brother still stayed true to Jehovah.

    I was also told that one of the child molesters did not do the crime but only took the rap for his son to spare his son from prison. And that this pedophile just had misguided love for his son. This pedophile told the whole body of elders that he did not do the crime and the elders had to believe him as no brother would ever lie to a whole body of elders.

    The wounds of child abuse never leave you they are always with you. At least when you are hurt from an drunk driver your injures are visible for the most part, people feel sorry for you, want to know what happened. You get to at least talk about the accident to help you heal, people tell you it was not your fault. When you are a victim of child abuse people run from you, they do not want to hear about it, know about, or even look at you sometimes.

    People would never dream of asking a victim of a drunk driver what did you do to cause it? Why were you on that road at that time of night? Why did you take that route? Did anyone see him hit you? Where are the two witnesses?

    When you are a victim of child rape you get asked why did you sit on that guys lap when you were six? What were you thinking? Why did you go alone into the backyard? If the guy scared you why did you put yourself in a place where he could get to you alone. Why did you allow it to go on for so long? I know he started to molest you when you were three but come on you still allowed him to touch you when you were 15 you knew better by then didn't you? And the worst question where are your two witnesses? He says it never happened, or that you lead him on. How do we know who is telling the truth. After all his is a adult and you were just a child you could have just imagined all of this you know, a child's mind makes up a lot of things.

    So I ask again why the difference between a child molester in the "truth" and an alcoholic?


  • OnTheWayOut

    I think cognitive dissonance allows the JW's to say that one paid his debt to society and has changed but the other one hasn't.

    If they saw the alcoholic not owning a liquor store, never drinking at all, maybe even avoiding drinking social events for awhile, they would say the same of him. But the signs are there that he didn't change in your scenario.

    In the case of the pedophile, it could easily be the same. But the members think it is too extreme to expect him to "avoid children." As long as they don't see him taking a bunch of boys and/or girls camping, they easily allow themselves to feel that "the truth" has changed him. So of course he can live life as normal as he wants.

    They are wrong, of course. He should avoid children.

  • life is to short
    life is to short


    I know you are right that it is cognitive dissonance but you are also right that it is wrong and that they should avoid children. That is all I am asking.

    Thanks for your imput.


  • talesin

    they don't care about children --- children are only potential tools for FS ,, look at how they treat children overall -- see what I mean?


  • flipper

    LIFE IS TOO SHORT- I feel there are a couple of reasons the WT society goes lighter on child molesters than they do alcoholics. Mrs. Flipper and I talked about this and she suggested that the men in the JW cult under the WT society's influence have an old fashioned , patriarchal view of women & children from ancient times - in essence women & children are there for the benefit of man - not the other way around. So it's really similar to the view of women & children that you see in middle East countries where women & children are treated as second class citizens. It was true in ancient Bible times ( which was Middle East views ) as the sins of men were minimized regarding sexual things, yet if women did such things they were stoned for it .

    Also, my take on why the WT society and elders don't take a harsher view of child abuse compared to alcoholism is because if it becomes known publicly that a JW is or has been involved in abusing children it will cost the WT society much more in legal liability dealing with a JW child molester than just dealing with an alcoholic JW. Point I'm making is that our country, or society in general views child molestation much more seriously as a felony crime being committed with sentences handed out of 40 years to life for that felony crime. WT society leaders , elders , and other JW's don't want to draw attention to a former child molester in their midst as it brings negative publicity from the outside world towards the WT society. Believe me when I say- that is ALL they are concerned about. On the other side of the coin they don't mind talking about brother so and so's alcoholism because it's usually just a misdemeanor crime in our society which is more common and there is less chance of bad publicity getting out in the news media about drinking.

    The bottom line in my opinion is the WT society is ALL ABOUT appearance- not only how they appear to the outside world , but how they appear to the JW members in the congregation. That is why they hush up any talk about a JW's past child molestation record - because it will make Jehovah, uh, I mean the WT society and congregation look bad to the outside world and inside the congregation. They'd just as soon hide any information about it than reveal it. Opens too many cans of worms.

    Yes, it's wrong for them to do this. But the organization is run by criminals . All of us have to face that fact. They care more for the billion $$$$ expansion of " WT kingdom interests " than any exposure of child abuse so children will be protected. It's just the way it is. They won't change. The WT society is beyond ANY reformation, believe me. Hang in there my friend , you love justice and that is what counts. Don't expect the WT society to follow your sterling example

  • sizemik

    Good summary flip . . . I agree wholeheartedly.

    When you consider the Bible in it's entirety . . . it says next to nothing about children and how they should be valued and treated. Most of the OT references refer to their slaughter at the hands of God's adopted nation, being a "possession" signifying blessings (Job) . . . or being eaten by a bear. Lot screws his daughters and it's their fault. Apart from Christs singular interchange with children (which was used as more of an example of how adults should behave), the NT makes few references as well . . . mainly to how they should be "in subjection". The Bible reflects that same mid-eastern cultural attitude to children . . . as flip mentioned. Any who set it before themselves as the sole and pre-eminent guide for life will take on the same values it reflects. Not saying the bible actually teaches that . . . but it is sadly lacking in this area of family life and is by no means complete or balanced.

    I too have developed utter contempt for the architects of this cult. They show a strong leaning toward psychopathy when it comes to having any empathy at all for those hurt and damaged by this problem. The interests of the Organisation are not even weighed against the interests of the vulnerable . . . the vulnerable and the victims simply don't get ANY CONSIDERATION AT ALL . . . their focus is on maintaining their facade of "purity" which is just a joke . . . and it absolutely disgusts me to the core.

    Unfortunately those effected by paedophilia are often so broken down by it, that achieving any recourse or justice is just too bigger mountain to climb for them. They are so consumed by dealing with the fallout to themselves and trying to rebuild their lives that to make a stand against this callous and unloving juggernaut is out of the question. A lot of people fail to realise that . . . so the problem is easily buried and quickly forgotten. It's a travesty and an injustice of the most reprehensible kind. I sincerely hope for , and try to contribute to where possible, a turning around of this sad situation.

  • life is to short
    life is to short


    I know they do not care about the children. The more I learn about the cult the more clear it is becoming. This is a huge reason that they do not provide age appropriate Sunday school but instead expect the children to sit through inappropriate meetings that talk about the killings of all people if they do not become JW's, pornography, etc. It is truly I sick religion that I was born into I am finding out.

    Flipper and sizemik

    I know what you are saying is so true but I somehow over looked it all the years I was in. I accepted the treatment as a second class person with a smile on my face thinking I was giving my life to Jehovah.

    I cannot even begin to count how many times I was ordered to go sit in the hall after a meeting because my husband had a surprised elders meeting come up as we were leaving the hall. I would sit there sometimes for two to three hours. I felt like a piece of garbage. Never once was I offered a ride home or even given the chance to go to a coffee shop it was just SIT IN THE CAR until us men are done. I was never thanked by the elders or offered any apology it was just demand of me.

    So why did the child abuse issue hit me so hard? What did I think it would be like? I do not know? But I was truly just blown away by it. I honestly could not and really still cannot comprehend it. What I do not understand is how can an elder black slap a man who likes to make little girls have oral sex on him???? and say that they know Satan is testing this pedophile all because of me (the wife of one of their fellow elders) will not shut her stupid face up over it???

    What the HELL is wrong with this elder???????? The man he just touched, just black slapped LIKES TO FORCE CHILDREN TO HAVE SEX ON HIM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Than for the elders to get mad at me because I find it disgusting saying I have to apply 1 Corinthians 6: 9-11. I just was so blindsided by it all when it was first happening that I thought the elder who was talking to me had hand picked the Scripture at 1 Corinthians and that he had prayed on it, done hours of research to find just the one Scripture to help me understand the elders view, etc. OMG how stupid was I????????? It is just a stupid canned Scripture that the GB have given to the elders to throw at victims to SHUT THEM UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Aghhhh I am so disgusted. I know flipper you are right, totally right. But it still hurts that the religion I gave my life to has treated me and all victims of abuse like trash.

    When I first came on this board I was so afraid of saying to much about what I went through afraid that someone might recognize me by what I wrote. I now think that might have happened, that an elder from my hall is here on this board but so what, what I have written is true, I have the emails between me and the elders, letters I have written to Bethel to show my begging and pleading for help and more. All of this has fallen on deaf ears. Why should I be ashamed of it. I was molested as a kid and I felt it was my fault, then I grew up and was abused by my religion as is clear to me now and yet again I was blaming myself thinking it was my falut. It is not it is the elders who are standing behind men and women who rape kids that should be ashamed.

    It is just like with SNAP the Catholic Church support group it takes many victims to come together to have our voice heard. If the elders had their way I would just go away but the pain I carry is just to great to SHUT UP like they would like.

    By the way if one of my elders is reading this hi from LITS

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