Are Jehovah's Witnesses ever "good enough", must they remain anxious and fragile for fear they will not be saved by their works?

by Trailer Park Pioneer 16 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Trailer Park Pioneer
    Trailer Park Pioneer

    As a Jehovah's Witness you know you can never do enough without hearing stories of another witness doing twice what your doing and living off half the money your living on because they give all their time and money to the Watchtower. This is totally bunk, reading Romans 7:21-24 Paul knew his condition was hopeless without the Free Gift From God. Paul put all his emphasis on Jesus Christ, not some Self-Appointed Apostles whose proof offered up is over 150 Years of Failed Prophecy! Think of all the guilt JWs are subjected to, the Watchtower avoids using all the Scriptures that say

    21 I have discovered this principle of life—that when I want to do what is right, I inevitably do what is wrong. 22 I love God’s law with all my heart. 23 But there is another power within me that is at war with my mind. This power makes me a slave to the sin that is still within me. 24 Oh, what a miserable person I am! Who will free me from this life that is dominated by sin and death? 25 Thank God! The answer is in Jesus Christ our Lord. So you see how it is: In my mind I really want to obey God’s law, but because of my sinful nature I am a slave to sin. (Romans 7:21-24)

    Discerning False Prophets

    1 Dear friends, do not believe everyone who claims to speak by the Spirit. You must test them to see if the spirit they have comes from God. For there are many false prophets in the world. (1 John 4:1)

    1 Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ a has become a child of God. And everyone who loves the Father loves his children, too. 2 We know we love God’s children if we love God and obey his commandments. 3 Loving God means keeping his commandments, and his commandments are not burdensome. 4 For every child of God defeats this evil world, and we achieve this victory through our faith. 5 And who can win this battle against the world? Only those who believe that Jesus is the Son of God. (1 John 5:1-5)

    Fantastic Article written by this author, wow!

    http://thewatchtowerfiles.com/salvation/

    goodenough

    The adherent follows a strict set of rules and code of conduct. He or she works tirelessly to please the leadership of the organization which operates under the guise of God Himself.

    Unfortunately the cult member is never granted 100% confirmation that he or she is “saved”. Whether they’ve been working for six months, a year or fifty years, there is always some question or seed of doubt placed in their minds by the leadership. There is always some new plateau of perfection to attain to.

    With Scientologists they have to get to “clear” (their term for perfection) by paying through the nose for countless auditing sessions.

    With Jehovah’s Witnesses, they have to maintain a level of performance inside the group while observing hundreds of written and unwritten rules regarding dress, grooming, employment, health, social status and associations as well as regular meeting attendance and spending countless hours in “field service” recruiting others for the cause and selling books and magazines for the mother organization. However the “perfection” they seek is still yet unattainable. They have to wait for Armageddon (the end of the world) to come so that they can spend the next thousand years seeking physical perfection. Even then they aren’t guaranteed their salvation. At any point during that thousand.

    Question: What about Jehovah's Witnesses and works' salvation?

    Answer: Speaking with Jehovah’s Witnesses about Salvation by Grace Alone

    Today I spoke with a JW who agreed with me that we are in need of grace to cover our sins, yet he added that we also have to follow God’s law in order to be saved--in accordance with JW theology. After admitting that he cannot always follow the law correctly, his view was pared down to "Don’t do the really bad things and at least try." What we are left with is a salvation that depends upon human effort at least as much as divine grace. He admitted that we need to have an attitude of humility, but that works are necessary for salvation. Salvation, in JW theology of course, means something different; but for this article we will have to shelve that discussion.

    Scripture clearly teaches salvation by grace through faith alone. However, it also teaches good works. So, in the JW mindset, the two apparently become confused. The following is an argument that could possibly be used to help the open-minded JW (or anyone struggling with the interplay between faith and works).

    In John 14:21, Jesus said that whoever loves Him will obey His commands. But surely this demands that we obey at all times--not only some of the time. One theologian made this observation: "Genuine love for God leads to wholehearted obedience. If you told your spouse that you loved her (or him) at certain times but that you struggled to love her at others, your relationship would be in jeopardy. Yet we assume that God is satisfied with occasional love or partial obedience. He is not."

    If God is not satisfied with partial obedience, then none of us can satisfy God. None of us can please Him since we are all disobedient at times. If our love for God is dependent upon our obedience, as Jesus said, and if His acceptance of us depends upon our love for Him, then we cannot be accepted because we all disobey. But what if we sincerely try? Surely God would accept that. What if I told my wife I really try to love her, but I can’t always do it?

    So then, how is anyone accepted? It is not by our love for God but His love for us (1 John 4:10). We are accepted by grace through faith alone. Ephesians 2:8-9 andRomans 3:28 say that grace alone brings justification before God. Our efforts to obey could not satisfy Him as Blackaby pointed out. Only Christ’s finished work on the cross could do that (Romans 3:21-25). It would be arrogant to say that we can add anything to Christ’s finished work.

    But doesn’t James say that faith without works is dead (James 2:26)? What role do works play in God’s acceptance of us? None! We have already seen that. So, how do good works fit in then? First, they are an outward sign of the faith that has already saved the one who has it. In the "faith-without-works-is-dead" passage, James used Abraham’s work of offering his son to God as an example (James 2:20-23). But this act of righteousness did not do anything to bring him righteousness. That had already been granted.

    Not only do works point to the saving grace in us but they also earn us the rewards--among them a greater quality of life, especially in the life to come.

    Good works are the result of our salvation; God saves us to do good works. It is not that He saves us by them (Ephesians 2:10).

    To summarize the argument:

    • To love God means to obey Him.
    • But we do not always obey Him.
    • God is not pleased with our occasional love any more than our spouse would be.
    • Therefore, we cannot gain God’s acceptance through our obedience.
    • Christ’s sacrifice wins God’s acceptance for us when we put our faith in Him.
    • Good works follow as a sign to other people that we are God’s people, and we are rewarded for our good works.

    http://carm.org/works-salvation

  • LisaRose
    LisaRose

    The last circuit convention had a talk that was one of the things that helped me wake up. The speaker asked "Are you a regular publisher? If not, why not? If you are a regular publisher, can you auxiliary pioneer? If not, why not? If you are an auxiliary pioneer, can you regular pioneer? If not, why not? If you are a regular pioneer, can you special pioneer? If not, why not?"

    All I could think was, what do they say to the special pioneers to make them feel guilty? I could see that guilt was the end goal, not the preaching work, which was ineffective and pointless, more about counting time than any thing else. 

    Guilt is useful to keep people enslaved to the organization, if you are busy either counting time or feeling guilty because you are not counting time, then you aren't thinking about how futile it all is. 


  • WTWizard
    WTWizard

    Have they ever heard of doing things within their reasonable means?  Some people can stay out all day and peddle the same crap, while others are not cut out for that.  Why should those who cannot stay out all day be forced to?  And some people can reasonably live on less than others can.

    And, there is the cost relative to benefit.  If I am going to get more benefit from the next unit of work, so be it.  So long as that benefit exceeds the marginal cost, I should continue regardless of what anyone else is doing.  But, once the marginal cost starts to exceed the marginal benefit, that's it.  And some people might be stupid enough to go out while they are sick, live on next to nothing, and think they are happy.  Others simply do not get enough benefit from going out longer.

    Also, sometimes it makes sense to wimp out.  I can remember one day when it was quite cold, and I was trying to decide whether it was worth going out or not to the arcade.  I was in college at the time, and decided not to go to the arcade that day.  I got some homework done that afternoon, and it turned out that the mall where the arcade was located in was closed due to the cold.  I got something caught up on during that time.  Of course, the witlesses are too stupid to think that, maybe if they "sick out" or "cold out" on field circus one day, they can get some housework done or something else they have been meaning to do "some other time".

  • hoser
    hoser

    Yes, it is a motivational system based on guilt. Take away the guilt and the Jehovah's Witness religion would fall apart. 

    That is why, in my opinion, the watchtower organization is so against anything that can increase a persons self esteem.  They are against hobbies, recreation and higher learning.  If people feel good about themselves by outside means they won't strive to feel adequate by engaging in watchtower activities. 

  • Trailer Park Pioneer
    Trailer Park Pioneer

    Jehovah's Witnesses and their push for Works using James Chapter 2, good article written by CARM.

    Question: What about Jehovah's Witnesses and works' salvation?

    Answer: Speaking with Jehovah’s Witnesses about Salvation by Grace Alone

    Today I spoke with a JW who agreed with me that we are in need of grace to cover our sins, yet he added that we also have to follow God’s law in order to be saved--in accordance with JW theology. After admitting that he cannot always follow the law correctly, his view was pared down to "Don’t do the really bad things and at least try." What we are left with is a salvation that depends upon human effort at least as much as divine grace. He admitted that we need to have an attitude of humility, but that works are necessary for salvation. Salvation, in JW theology of course, means something different; but for this article we will have to shelve that discussion.

    Scripture clearly teaches salvation by grace through faith alone. However, it also teaches good works. So, in the JW mindset, the two apparently become confused. The following is an argument that could possibly be used to help the open-minded JW (or anyone struggling with the interplay between faith and works).

    In John 14:21, Jesus said that whoever loves Him will obey His commands. But surely this demands that we obey at all times--not only some of the time. One theologian made this observation: "Genuine love for God leads to wholehearted obedience. If you told your spouse that you loved her (or him) at certain times but that you struggled to love her at others, your relationship would be in jeopardy. Yet we assume that God is satisfied with occasional love or partial obedience. He is not."

    If God is not satisfied with partial obedience, then none of us can satisfy God. None of us can please Him since we are all disobedient at times. If our love for God is dependent upon our obedience, as Jesus said, and if His acceptance of us depends upon our love for Him, then we cannot be accepted because we all disobey. But what if we sincerely try? Surely God would accept that. What if I told my wife I really try to love her, but I can’t always do it?

    So then, how is anyone accepted? It is not by our love for God but His love for us (1 John 4:10). We are accepted by grace through faith alone. Ephesians 2:8-9 andRomans 3:28 say that grace alone brings justification before God. Our efforts to obey could not satisfy Him as Blackaby pointed out. Only Christ’s finished work on the cross could do that (Romans 3:21-25). It would be arrogant to say that we can add anything to Christ’s finished work.

    But doesn’t James say that faith without works is dead (James 2:26)? What role do works play in God’s acceptance of us? None! We have already seen that. So, how do good works fit in then? First, they are an outward sign of the faith that has already saved the one who has it. In the "faith-without-works-is-dead" passage, James used Abraham’s work of offering his son to God as an example (James 2:20-23). But this act of righteousness did not do anything to bring him righteousness. That had already been granted.

    Not only do works point to the saving grace in us but they also earn us the rewards--among them a greater quality of life, especially in the life to come.

    Good works are the result of our salvation; God saves us to do good works. It is not that He saves us by them (Ephesians 2:10).

    To summarize the argument:

    • To love God means to obey Him.
    • But we do not always obey Him.
    • God is not pleased with our occasional love any more than our spouse would be.
    • Therefore, we cannot gain God’s acceptance through our obedience.
    • Christ’s sacrifice wins God’s acceptance for us when we put our faith in Him.
    • Good works follow as a sign to other people that we are God’s people, and we are rewarded for our good works.

    http://carm.org/works-salvation

  • Trailer Park Pioneer
    Trailer Park Pioneer

    Lisa, it's never enough according to the Watchtower's commandments, is it any wonder anxiety, depression, fear and mental illness plague lots of witnesses?  The Governing Body is hoarding all the joy for themselves and after reading C.O.C. and I.S.O.C.F the boss Men designed the Watchtower's Corporate Mission Statement to keep all their members in a state of fear, create a sense of worthlessness and for God's sake, don't use your brain or your being proud with ego.  Looking back it's obvious we never belonged in the Group because we are valuable, each person has intrinsic value and worth in Gods eyes, the Watchtower's teachings are not Bible-based, they are Law based trying to find the splinter in each of our eyes while ignoring their long history of Failed Prophecy!

  • Lieu
    Lieu

    No. Only through the almighty time slips shall they have a chance to survive Armegeddon. For the time slip = level of spirituality and love.

    How absolutely sad such dealings in frivolity.

  • jhine
    jhine

    This whole idea of going door to door is not Bible based anyway . The reference to going to people's houses meant preaching in the houses of believers to groups of interested listeners .

    The Bible clearly teaches that we all have different gifts and talents to use ." The eye is not a hand " etc ( paraphrased ) . We are told not to compare ourselves to one another .

    Jan

  • Crazyguy
    Crazyguy
    I have more love in my left pinky finger then the god of the bible. And if one were still a bible believer then the JW's won't have much of a chance at the big A for they are not under the New Covenant and reject Christ's blood. They also ignore most of what Jesus supposedly commanded and taught, so why would god grant them any favors?
  • flipper
    flipper
    No, in the WT Society's eyes- Jehovah's Witnesses are NEVER good enough. They take quite literally the scripture to " work out your salvation with FEAR and TREMBLING. " But WT leaders mean that the FEAR and TREMBLING should be about fearing THEM , the Governing Body- not God

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit