Is there anyone sick among YOU? Let him call the older men!

by TimothyT 10 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  TimothyT

  I was reading the letter of James before and I came across a verse which a brother on my judicial comittee shown me:

  14 Is there anyone sickamong YOU? Let him call the older men of the congregation to [him], and let them pray over him, greasing [him] with oil in the name of Jehovah. 15 And the prayer of faith will make the indisposed one well, and Jehovah will raise him up. Also, if he has committed sins, it will be forgiven him. (James 5:14-15)

  What does this word 'sick' mean? Here is the Watchtower definition:

  The older men, or elders, are called upon to respond to the needs of the flock. How? Not by merely hearing a confession. Rather, since spiritual sickness is involved, something needs to be done in order to “make the indisposed one well.” (The Watchtower 2010, 9/1, p.24)

  Who said anything about spiritual sickness? According to Strong's, the original word used is 'Astheneo', refers solely to physical sickness, such as leprosy. It was those prayers from the elders in the first century, just like Jesus performed in the gospels, that allowed them to heal such sicknesses. It had nothing to do with spiritualy, hence we have another scritpure that has been taken out of context and twisted to fit the needs of the WTS.

  Timmy x
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  N.drew

  That is a good post. I wondered about that. Even though JW teach there is no such thing as faith healing, I know that there is power in Jesus name to heal physical illness from my own personal experience. Thanks Timmy
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  shamus100

  Good catch, Timothy!
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  sir82

  That's what happens when one scripture contradicts the JW interpretation of another scripture: You add weasel words like "[spiritual] sickness" to try to make it fit.

  The JWs teach that, according to 1 Corinthians 13, miraculous gifts of healing physical illnesses ceased after the death of the last of the apostles.

  However, as you correctly noted above, the scripture in James indicates that such "faith healing" for physical illnesses was to be expected indefinitely - no expiration date.

  So, as usual, the JW spinmeisters went into action to jam the circular puzzle piece into the square opening.

  The more carefully you read the Bible without JW blinders on, the more you see how they force things to make it "fit". Keep going, you should be able to easily find dozens more similar examples.

  Here's another fun one to look up: 1 Corinthians 7:36-38. The NWT translates the Greek word "parthenos" as "virginity" here - but everywhere else it is translated as "virgin". Now why would they do that?
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  discreetslave

  Awesome find Timothy.

  I found this in the NWT the reference for James 5:14 is Mark 6:13 "and they would expel many demons and grease many sickly people with oil and cure them." The correct explanation was there all along.
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  Bella15

  I am glad you do your research ...

  "Keep asking, and it will be given to you. Keep searching, and you will find. Keep knocking, and the door will be opened for you."

  Spiritual sickness for me would fall under: Is anyone among you in trouble? and the answer LET THEM PRAY (not call the Elders). Perhaps you could research the word trouble in greek - I am connecting away from home right now.
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  bats in the belfry

  The spin doctors pretty much have covered it all ...

  James speaks of a spiritual ‘greasing with oil’ in the name of Jehovah for spiritually sick ones as the proper procedure for one needing spiritual help. That he refers to spiritual sickness is indicated by his statements: “Let him call the older men of the congregation,” not doctors, and, “if he has committed sins, it will be forgiven him.” (Jas 5:13-16) Jesus makes a spiritual application of the practice when he tells the Laodicean congregation to “buy from me . . . eyesalve to rub in your eyes that you may see.”— Re 3:18.
  
  Insight on the Scriptures, Volume 1 (1988), p. 113, pp. Anointed, Anointing

  James 5:13 asks in part: "Is there anyone in good spirits? Let him sing psalms". - I get it:

  Since it's all 'spiritual' the elders will feed intoxicating booze, and all together they will sing shanty songs.
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  TimothyT

  "That he refers to spiritual sickness is indicated by his statements: “Let him call the older men of the congregation,” not doctors"

  So I take it then that Jesus was a doctor, because he healed the sick! Lol!

  They have some crazy ideas dont they the JWs!

  Timmy xxx
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  freedomisntfree

  I had that passage read to me in the context of "spiritual sickness" in an elders meeting once. I remember thinking the greasing with oils bit was confusing becuase in other biblical texts thats how someone is appointed to something like samuel with soloman making him king.
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  Awen

  Also the name Jehovah doesn't actually occur in the Greek text of the Letter of James. It's Jesus' name, but that would contradict WT teaching and so Freddy Franz replaced the name with Jehovah when he "translated" the NWT.

  I give you the letter of James in Greek with the English translation next to it as evidence.

  http://www.bookofjames.info/greek.html

  Note that in James 1:1 Jesus is referred to as "The Lord". So it's safe to conclude that any further references to "the Lord" is in fact a reference to Jesus and not Jehovah.

  Also I think you are correct when this scripture is speaking of physical ailments and not spiritual ones. The reason the WTS says otherwise is because their reasoning is flawed.