Spoke with a dub on ever changing doctrine...

by stocwach 13 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  stocwach

  --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  {To anyone that has seen this topic under "Beliefs, Doctrine, and Practices", I apologize for the duplication, but I wanted to make sure it got the most exposure under the "Main" thread here}:

  I asked him how could it be the true religion with all the numerous doctrinal changes. This is how he replied to me in an email:

  " Another thing mentioned was the apostles (Known as the governing body)
  arguing whether or not circumcision is necessary since the gentiles up to
  this time were not accepted into the christian congregation. It wasn't until
  the majority of the jews rejected Christ that the Gentiles were FINALLY
  allowed to join. (rejecting the Gentiles was also a problem in the
  congregation since the Christian jews thought that they were superior to the
  Gentiles ) Christs apostles were all jewish. However, when the gentiles were
  allowed to become Christians, there was confusion (Confusion among the 11
  apostles, Paul and the elders in Christs time) as to whether the non Jews
  needed to be circumcised like the Jewish Christians already were. Some
  APOSTLES believed that they should be, whereas other APOSTLES thought they
  should not. You need to read verses 19-20, 21, 24-30 to get an idea of their
  determination on what was really important and whether circumcision needed
  to be enforced. Remember, these were the Apostles that followed Christ and
  they were divided on this issue in this Chapter in Acts 15.

  To me, if anything was to stumble me out of the christian religion is how
  these apostles that knew Christ and spoke and walked with him would not know
  the answer to something as simple as this. Also another thing that is
  confusing is that for 4000 years, non jews had no opportunity to be god's
  covenant people since God made this covenant exclusive to the jewish nation.
  Why would this exclusive oppotunity change later? As in bible times and when
  certain understandings today come to light, certainly things do change
  (Can't eat shell fish, pigs, jewish nation exclusive nation God dealt with,
  no mention of Heaven in the old testament, animal sacrifices etc etc,,,,,)
  yet all these things changed when Jesus came. Certainly one could reason
  since these apostles changed their mind that everyone needed to be
  circumcised and the whole circumcision issue that they couldn't be the
  true religion could they? They did walk with Christ did they not yet still
  did not know the circumcision issue? If changing thinking on certain
  doctrinal issues is a turn off for you, then Christianity as a whole then
  should be a turn off since the early Apostles changed their thinking not
  only about the circumcision issue but also on whether the gentiles were
  worthy of being Christians also."

  I haven't had time to look at the verses and context, but I wanted to post this to get everyone's thoughts and possible rebuttals. I just found out that this guy has been a JW for 5 years (his wife was raised on JW), and he said he will be open to look at the controversial issues I had brought up to him (UN, blood issue, silentlambs, etc.) I'm pretty pumped up about that, but before I get into any of that stuff in detail with him, I'd like to have a nice response to his email.

  Thanks in advance everyone!
• 

  mikepence

  blah blah blah...false comparison.

  If you replace the word apostle with "Catholic Church" and made it about one of their doctrines, you could make the same comparison.
• 

  roybatty

  Only thing is Mike, your average Catholic is as adamant as your average JW about which religion is true and which one is false or with strictly following every little decision their religious leader(s) make.
  I'm not a fan of Catholicism but adhering to doctrinal law (and changes) is much more inportant to JWs then to Catholics.
• 

  detective

  Another thing mentioned was the apostles (Known as the governing body)...

  
  I still can't get past this statement. Where in the bible are the apostles known as the governing body?

  I'm guessing he means that the Watchtower's governing body was created as a modern day emodiment inspired by the apostles well, ummmmmm, sure. Whatever.

  Of course, I'm trying to imagine the apostles taking a hand-count to determine if they've got the majority so they can get rid of circumcision.
• 

  You Know

  Apostates play both sides of that issue. Out of one side of their mouth they accuse the Watchtower of never changing, while out of the other corner of their mouth they make the accusation that we are always changing. Which one is the truth doesn't matter because accusation is the name of the game in apostatedom. / You Know
• 

  ianao

  And then idiots like You Know who aren't even considered to be JWs by his own "people" march in the threads and says something ridiculous such as the above to try and justify themselves.
• 

  Makena1

  Just finished reading The Myth of Certainty. In my opinion it presents a very balanced view of faith, truth and commitment to one's belief.
  http://www.gospelcom.net/cgi-ivpress/book.pl/code=2237

  Thanks to Mulan's husband for letting me borrow it.

  Mak

  Some men worship rank, some worship heroes, some worship power, some worship God, & over these ideals they dispute & cannot unite--but they all worship money.
  - Mark Twain
• 

  willy_think

  Another thing mentioned was the apostles (Known as the governing body)

  apostolic succession?
  NO not the successors of the apostles.
  The very apostles themselves.

  The Great and Powerful Oz:
  

  pay no attention to the man behind the curtain
• 

  conflicted

  In my opinion, JW's are a new religion relativly speaking and are still feeling their way. In the beginning it was a much different religion than it is today, it will be different a generation from now if it still exists. Right now the GB are very old men with standards set by people who are long dead, when they pass younger men fill their shoes and a whole new set of standards comes into play. This sets up a slow process of changing policy to a more modern way of thinking.

  Unfortunatly the changing policy is so slow, and there are enough older men remaining to cause the change to stutter and fluctuate, ie the blood issue, and the definition of 'generation'.

  The bottom line is that there are MEN behind the whole process, not God. It is a religion of men, created by man and the imperfections are staggering when you look at them from the outside. From the inside the men can control the thinking of it's members and therein lies the real danger.

  --------------------------------------
  life is the opportunity for art
• 

  picosito

  "If changing thinking on certain doctrinal issues is a turn off for you, then Christianity as a whole then should be a turn off since the early Apostles changed their thinking not only about the circumcision issue but also on whether the gentiles were worthy of being Christians also."

  The WTS does not only change, it goes back and forth, like blinking on and off. Christianity as a whole IS a turnoff, because of all the harm that it's caused during twenty centuries.